Overcoming Your Inner Critic with Joy Bracey

[00:00:00] Joy Bracey: People don't know what they don't know. And I'm a hundred percent, I'm certain that most people think they love themselves because I did, I was like, Oh yeah, my mom really like talked about self love my whole life. My whole childhood, she would say, Oh, you got to love yourself first. But Oh yeah, check. I love myself.

Like, of course I do. You know, what does that mean even? Like, uh, but no one was saying, no, no, this is what self love actually looks like in a person.

[00:00:29] Nikki La Croce: Hey gang, this episode with Dr. Joy Bracey is absolutely tremendous. Joy has overcome a lot in her life. She has lost almost 200 pounds, but this is not easy. a weight loss journey episode. This is an internal journey episode. It is about our evolution as individuals and how we have access to so much potential if we just give ourselves the space to explore who we truly are.

And if we give ourselves the opportunity to set shame aside. and allow ourselves to fill that space with more love for ourselves and for those around us. I hope that you enjoy this episode and if you like what you hear, definitely share it with somebody that you think it would resonate with. I also really appreciate it if you can leave a review.

I love reading them. It tells me not only what you enjoy about the show, but it also allows me the opportunity to really understand the impact that this is having for each of you. I can't wait to hear what you think. And for now, let's dive in. So one of the things, like I had revisited, like I said, kind of a conversation that we had when we had first spoken.

And there are so many good things that came out of, I think a 20 minute intro call turned into almost an hour and 15 minute conversation and no surprise. Um, you're an absolute delight to chat with, but you also just have so much insight. And I feel like, You know, the thing that we had kind of come around to and I think could be a great place to start is with the inner critic, like we all face so much criticism from ourselves that is embedded at an early age and sort of perpetuated until we draw the line in the sand and are like, enough is enough.

[00:02:10] Joy Bracey: Yeah, I love it. That's where I started. So I think it's a great place to start at the beginning.

[00:02:15] Nikki La Croce: What was sort of the catalyst for you having that moment of recognition about your own inner critic and your need to change it?

[00:02:22] Joy Bracey: So I didn't organically notice mine or think that I had one. Um, I sort of felt a calling for a while to host a women's retreats to bring women together, talk about a topic.

But I, in my mind, I, I have a doctorate in executive leadership. I've been working in the addiction field for 20 years and I'm a therapist, but I'm like, I don't have anything to like, to teach. Like, what am I going to talk about? You know what I mean? Like, I don't

[00:02:50] Nikki La Croce: know. Well, we make the assumption that everybody knows what we know too, right?

Like that's, you have a lot of information based on what you just said that I guarantee you many people don't know.

[00:03:01] Joy Bracey: Well, sure. But like, what, I was just thinking like, I'm not, I don't have it all together. I'm in a toxic relationship. I weigh 337 pounds. So clearly like something is up with my food relationship and my emotional relationship with myself.

Like, what do I have to offer at a woman's retreat? Like, I'm just not that person. And, but yet the calling was like, ni, what do you say? Nudging? Yeah. Yeah. Like kept like needling at me. And, uh, so I was like, okay, I'm, I'm saying yes to the universe and I'm going to just start asking the women in my life, like, what's going on with you?

What do you need? What's, you know, what's bothering you? What, you know, and the inner critic was something that came up very quickly across the board. Everyone that I talked to was like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a problem. Did they

[00:03:47] Nikki La Croce: refer to it as an inner critic or was it just sort of like the self esteem, like the, the feelings of internalized shame, things like that.

And it sort of could, Like combined to equate to the inner critic.

[00:03:57] Joy Bracey: I think it's sort of the way that people talk about it when they aren't sort of talking in sort of the modern psychological speak. Yeah. That everyone that, what do you call it? The pop psychology. Yeah. Yeah. Um, is like the, the thoughts. how I think about myself, what I tell myself.

Um, and so this became very clear off the topic. Oh, okay. But I didn't necessarily relate like, Oh yeah, I have this too. Um, at first, you know, it took a minute of, of really processing, like, okay, I started researching. That's what I do. You know, I sort of dug in and start Google, you know, and, you know, reading and going down those rabbit holes.

And I was like, okay, yes, I do have this. And I identified really fast that my inner critic loved to say and sort of took the angle of who do you think you are? So everything that I told myself with my inner critic was about making me smaller, making me ashamed of shining my full light of who I am and being truly myself.

Um, and once I identified that I do indeed have an inner critic like most folks, and, um, I immediately started developing tools, you know, to handle it. Like, what am I going to do about this? And because I wanted to promote this retreat that I was doing, I went on social media. I'm like, okay, I have to promote this on social media.

I was just going to make memes like with words, you know, I wasn't going to make any videos. And then, you I was like, Oh, okay, if I really want to get people's attention, I have to talk to them. So then I started making videos, something I never aspired to.

[00:05:38] both: No, I get that

[00:05:39] Joy Bracey: though. It turns out. And so now, uh, you know, for a couple of years or almost, I've been making videos almost every day talking to camera, which is unbelievable to me and not something I ever wanted to do.

And in fact, still fight with this, you know, monster of the algorithm and what my part in it is, but, um, So yeah, I started developing tools to, uh, conquer the inner critic and so as I'm sharing the tools, I'm also sharing my personal journey with this. So I'm teaching as I'm learning, building the plane as I'm flying it because I learn by teaching and by putting a framework around things.

So I am healing my inner critic. And then what happened next is that I discovered that once you can start to live without the suffering under this, like, tyrannical inner critic, self love can come in. Then there's like this space that opens up. And this was just what happened for me. And I was like, Oh, okay.

So then I began to talk about self love. Like, what does this look like? We aren't taught it. No. And so. That's kind of the progression. And then once you develop self love, then your universal guidance, your intuition, your spirituality has this like huge opening, and you're just so much more in tune. And so then the magic really begins to happen.

So then I'm, you know, now I'm a professor teaching self awareness. It's so weird. Like, and, and, mindfulness and meditation and all this. This was never, I was never an expert in any of these things. And just a week, you know, and a half ago, I'm literally meditating in a cave at the top of the Himalayas. Like, I

[00:07:23] Nikki La Croce: don't know who I am.

I really appreciate that though, because I think it's a testament to, um, the need to be open to what life might hold for you. And I'd actually gone through some of my old, like, things that I'd written, episode quotes, things that I'd said, just kind of being like, is there anything, you know, I'm sure there's something worthwhile in here.

What things can I make into posts or something like that? And it was like this one yesterday that I had pulled out was, um, you know, I've learned that there's two types of people in the world, the type of people who see life as a series of endless possibilities and the type of people who see the life they're living now as the only option they have.

And I feel like I, when I was trapped in a toxic relationship, um, partly of my own doing, right? Uh, there's accountability there. I was, under the belief this is my life, right? But like your life is so much more than everything that's sitting in front of you, around you, that you can witness actually tangibly.

And your comment about they don't teach us self love hits so hard for me because it was the recognition that I didn't even, like, it was uncomfortable for me to say I liked myself, let alone to say that I loved myself. I kind of thought it was corny. And I was like, Or

[00:08:44] Joy Bracey: like, God forbid you start saying what's good about you.

Like, what do you like about yourself? Oh, goodness gracious. I can't do that. Yeah.

[00:08:51] Nikki La Croce: And, and so I think it's a really important point to make because people, you know, there's definitely more now there's more content now that's promoting that healthy school of thought. But again, like, this is not what as an.

older millennial, that wasn't at the forefront of the conversation. Like this emotional intelligence, this self love, this desire to help people cultivate the self love through, you know, introspection, seeking a deeper sense of purpose, seeking a deeper understanding of yourself. This is all fairly new, um, in terms of like, Western dialogue.

And I say it that way because I listened to a lot of philosophical things, you know, Ram Dass, Alan Watts, Michael Singer type things where this isn't new. It's not new. It's just that we've been in denial of something that would really help expand our collective well being and our collective consciousness.

And I feel like when you realize that you have some semblance of control over it, because we don't have full control over anything, like that's just the, that's just the brakes. When you realize that you can actually shift your perspective, you can create more love, abundance, safety around yourself, that like really, as you said, it's such a game changer.

And I think it really, really helps. puts a new light on what your potential is because we, that inner critic, as you said, is like, who do you think you are? And you're like, it's whoever I want to be. Yeah,

[00:10:15] Joy Bracey: exactly. And that sort of was, it's like the, sort of like the cork on the champagne bottle. Once that was addressed and I released that, it was like everything else flowed from there.

And I want to back up to something you said, because like, yes, there is more of a conversation around self love. But let me just tell you, because I've been trying to build a following on social media purely because I, I literally make no money from any of this, from the podcast, from not a dollar. And I put a lot of time in, but I am trying to figure out how to spread the word because I want the right people to get the message, right?

Not the right people, everyone, but the people who want

[00:10:56] Nikki La Croce: it, who are ready to receive it.

[00:10:58] Joy Bracey: That's right. Um, so I've put a little time in figuring this out. And when you look into what people are searching for on social media, self love doesn't even enter the picture. If you put in the words, uh, self love, you get back things like boyfriend, girlfriend, How does my boyfriend love me?

Like, cause you can use these tools to find out what people are searching for. They are not searching for that. And most of the self love content that I see is about like, first of all, embracing how you look, which is great. And that's definitely a part of it. And then the other part is like. I'm treating myself to spa days and you know, this whole like ethereal self love, like the Instagram, um, aesthetic of self love is really more what I see.

There's really not a lot of, this is how you do it. Like this is the step one of how to love yourself and step two. And this is what it looks like as a daily practice. And like you said, um, The truth is that it is the truth. I have Ram Dass sitting on my desk, Wayne Dyer, Marianne Williamson, like the truth is out there.

It's been being said and the truth is the truth is the truth, no matter who's saying it. And one of my inner critic things when I first started this was like, well, it's the truth and there's already people saying it, but. If that was enough, then we would all love ourselves and we would all have inner peace and we would all be like our most enlightened selves and the world would be amazing transformed place.

We need every voice, every drummer, every different beat, like whoever you are. If you have some sort of mastery of any aspect of self love, mindfulness, Get out there and talk to people. Teach it. Because there's not enough voices in the choir because clearly people aren't getting the message. We need it coming from every angle.

[00:12:47] Nikki La Croce: That's so beautiful, Joy, and I totally agree with you. It's very easy to, uh, to think that it's sort of already being handled. Yeah,

[00:12:55] Joy Bracey: it's not. Because so many people are saying it and

[00:12:56] Nikki La Croce: people have been saying it for ages. Well, what I think that to Jesus and before, right? The

[00:13:02] Joy Bracey: truth is the truth and it always has been

[00:13:06] Nikki La Croce: to your comment about sort of like, where is it?

Like, how are people actually instructing you or trying to help guide you to this place of self love? You know, I'm. In an algorithm for sure that is probably different than a lot of people, mostly it's like quotes about healing and trauma support and, and self love, therapy, all these things, right? There's so many good things that people are saying, and if you're in a place where you understand the importance of self love, It's a lot easier to receive those things in sort of a more abstract way, read it, consume it and be like, ah, yes, that expands on what I already know to be true.

And that's validated integration. Yeah. So, so I, I hadn't thought of it that way. And I feel like that's a really good point because I'm like, yeah, there is a lot of content out there about it. It's like, yes, but I know what I'm looking for. And I've sought out and cultivated, curated my content in a way that is like, you'll see more of this and it'll expand based on those things that you already know.

But if who's, what about the person who's starting from ground zero?

[00:14:07] Joy Bracey: Well, and that's the thing. People don't know what they don't know. They don't know what they don't know. And I'm a hundred percent, I'm certain that most people think they love themselves because I did. I was like, Oh yeah, My mom really like talked about self love my whole life, my whole childhood.

She would say, Oh, you got to love yourself first. But Oh yeah, check. I love myself. Like, of course I do. You know, what does that mean even? Like, but no one was saying, no, no, this is what self love actually looks like in a person.

[00:14:36] Nikki La Croce: What does self love look

[00:14:36] Joy Bracey: like? Yeah. So I think that a telltale sign when a person loves themselves.

They can be an absolute cheerleader for other people's successes. There is a peacefulness and a kindness that exists. And I know this because this strange change has happened in myself. I'm human. So of course I still have that, you know, little, I call it the animal brain still wants to nip at me sometimes and be like, don't don't like her posts because she doesn't even follow you back.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's like whatever, like the pettiness is that we creep in. Yes, absolutely. That's just my humanity showing. I don't hate myself for it. I'm like, Oh, that's just my brain doing its thing. And then I go back and I like the person's post, you know, like, that's not really who I am. That's just my brain doing its animal thing.

It's like a competition thing. It's, it's normal. Right. But that we don't have to identify as that and let it run the show because most of us are operating at this level where that animal part of our brain is absolutely in charge. And I know I made like most of my life decisions with this animal brain, like before this transformation.

I mean, so no judgment, but it's just where we are. We are animals, you know, and we're trying to survive and we're trying to get our piece of the pie and put our food on the table and feel a sense of importance and value in the world. Most of us have been taught from day one that our sense of value and importance in the world comes from other people, giving us it.

Like, when they ask us out on a date, or when they give us a raise, or when they tell us we look pretty, or are jealous of our outfits, or whatever. Like, this is what we've been taught to receive as you're important in the world, versus you are born And therefore you're important in the world. Now let's see what you can do if you harness that.

Oh, that's so beautiful. We're not given that. We're not taught

[00:16:26] Nikki La Croce: that at all. Yeah. Well, and I, something that you and I, I think when we first connected, we had been a little delayed in getting the intro call on cause I had things going on and I probably made the comment when we finally connected. I'm like, oh yeah, well I'm a believer in divine timing.

And I think that this ends up happening a lot. When I speak to guests and then some time passes and then we record an episode and the timeliness of this conversation right now for where I am in my own life. Like I, I would like to sit here and be like, I am the most evolved version of myself that I could be.

I'm the most evolved version of myself I've ever been.

[00:17:05] Joy Bracey: Great.

[00:17:06] Nikki La Croce: I will say when I was traveling, I said to one of my friends, I was like, When I am inconvenienced when I'm traveling, I am the least evolved version of myself. Like I, it's like all of my spiritual work has gone out the window and I just need you to fucking move.

[00:17:20] Joy Bracey: Well, I just got back from India, which is like the most challenging place on the planet, at least the most challenging place on the planet I have ever been. And I was in constant state of disbelief. Like, The unfairness of the ridiculousness of the situation is outrageous. I need to speak to the manager.

And all of a sudden, like I am humbled minute by minute in this place that doesn't work the way anywhere else. Right, right. And

[00:17:45] Nikki La Croce: so I totally

[00:17:45] Joy Bracey: relate.

[00:17:46] Nikki La Croce: Well, I really appreciate, too, because I mean, I've definitely had some friends who've traveled to India and have experienced. Blame sort of the complexities of their travels in that, and especially like when you're coming from North America and we have a lot of things like expectations.

You know, even just like I was in Mexico and it wasn't like we went to and from the airport to the resort, like it was very fleeting, you know? But there are these little things where you're like, I just, this isn't the way that I'm used to, or I'm just sort of perturbed because something's not going at the pace I want it to go.

Or like, why would you do it this way? Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Well, I think that's part of it, right? It's like, but you said, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And I think we, we operate under the assumption that people have the information and the abilities that we have, uh, in life and in locations.

But when I think about like the aspect of, um, of sort of that personal evolution and that self love piece of it, you know, we, it's very hard to sort of look at yourself and praise yourself for. Who you are and how you show up in the world. If you don't really even know who you are, like so much of what we struggle with is you were saying, like, you know, sort of the, we've been conditioned to want what other people want.

because it's trendy, or because it's cool, or because, uh, or to learn things that are important to other people, but might not be important to us, like just even the education system. It's like, it's, it's all sort of slanted to cater to like what getting everybody to kind of be the same, when in reality, the benefit to every human is, as you said, like being born and showing up and doing the thing that is for you.

is what's ultimately going to propel us forward. And this is sort of a long winded way of getting back to that and saying that importance, that, that awareness of yourself and the impact that you have. Like I was in the shower yesterday having this moment of like, like, what am I doing? Like, what is it? I have, you know, so much passion for this podcast and for the people that I get to speak with.

And to your point, it's like, it's not my main source of income. I'm, I'm not passionate about the things I was doing to make money before, but. I also need to make a living. And I had to be there with myself for a second and be like, but it's not nothing. Like, it's not nothing just because it's not the source of your, you know, financial wellbeing.

Like, think about how many people you've connected with. Think about the conversations that you've had that have impacted you, that have impacted guests, that have impacted listeners. And then the ripple effect of that. And it's like, I just had to be like, it's not nothing. It's not nothing. And we look at our lives and we pick things apart and we're like, well, because I'm not this or I'm not that, I'm nothing.

You are never nothing. And we don't learn that. We, we, we, we convince ourselves that our value is rooted in the tangible and the beliefs of others. And in reality, and what you're pointing out is who we are and. the abundance of what we can offer the world is all within us. And if I were saying this, if I were hearing myself say this a few years ago, I'd be like, okay, like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:21:06] Joy Bracey: Nikki.

Who are you to talk about this new age crap? Go back to

[00:21:11] Nikki La Croce: your, go back to your nine to five, get your paycheck and shut up about it. Right. But when you started advocating for yourself and realizing what self love truly meant is like, I was able to leave a toxic relationship. And in doing that, I was able to.

explore further what it meant to have self love that then prepared me for the relationship that I'm in now where I love myself, I feel loved by the person that I'm with, and we have such a mutual respect and caring for each other. And that, I think, is another piece of the puzzle that a lot of people lose sight of how important self love is in contributing to the relationships that you have, whether it's romantic or otherwise.

[00:21:47] Joy Bracey: For sure. Yeah, your, your relationship is like a mirror for you. I had this man that I met, and we would have been great together. Like I knew intuitively, like this would have been a great situation, but he just wasn't ready. And he said, I have more work to do. I'm not ready. You know, I have to heal this, this, this.

And I said, you do realize that There's some healing that can't be done on your own. That you have to do it in relationship to another person. And I'm speaking as a single person, and I'll probably be single for a while because I have not had the freedom, like I think this is my freedom era and, you know, being responsible and accountable to a partner is not in the cards right now.

Well, you have

[00:22:26] Nikki La Croce: children too, right? Yeah. Without having children, there is a lot of space for me, but I know that my friends who have young kids, I had, we were on vacation. My friend said to me, like, I feel like I want to be more, you know, conscious of things, but I have three young kids. Like I, where's, when?

Yeah.

[00:22:42] Joy Bracey: When is this happening? Yeah. It's very, I have four children, so I'm trying to harness and And also redefine what freedom means. That a friend that I met in the Himalayas, uh, he, he and I were talking the other day, but yeah, so, oh, so amazing. Whose life is this? Um, like we were talking about this, like, what does, what does freedom really mean?

Like, what does that mean? You know, and it doesn't necessarily mean that I can traipse around the world and do whatever I want, wherever I want, you know, but anyway, to say, In relationship to another person, the person, the people that are around us, whether it's your primary partner, your children, your friends, your co workers, they are mirrors for you.

Those points of discomfort when you're on vacation, those are your little, like, little pings from the universe that say, here's a place you can look. Here's, here's, This discomfort you're feeling, what's that about? Go there. Go in on that. And, and healing the inner critic, like to, to sort of go way back to the beginning of this, healing the inner critic, like that's how you do it.

You like hone in on those spots. So like for me, when I'm scrolling and I hit a person who I'm like, I've always cut because I have it's like community of creators that I'm in right and there are people that I am a huge like I'm always commenting and reposting I'm sharing I'm liking and I just don't get that from them.

And that animal brain part of me wants to like be like, Hmm, this is my slice and you're right, right, right. And so for me, that is not something to ignore. That is not something to say, Oh, because we typically like want to run away from those uncomfortable feelings and thoughts that we don't like. We don't want to be that version of ourselves.

We're just going to like, either satisfy it by not giving the person that like, so I'm not going to even watch this all the way through. I'm going to scroll past, you know, um, cause they don't do this for me. Or we'll like, do like I do. I'm like, okay, this isn't really who I am. I'm going to like it.

[00:24:35] Nikki La Croce: Well, because that's the thing that was like, you're, you're not.

honoring yourself by letting that sort of, um, more, I am going to, like I said before, I'm going to use the term petty, but like we all have it. And I, um, I hope that that's not offensive to you. I mean, that's how I would feel in that situation. Right. It's like, yeah, it's petty, but it's like, if the content was good, and I do appreciate it, then why am I not doing it?

Right? That's right. I'm not honoring who I really am and what I really like. It's like when I would say I didn't like pop music just to spite the fact that I was like, damn the man, I'm not conformist, not like this. And then I'm like, maybe I do like some Taylor Swift songs. But my, but my wife says to me, she's like, but like, who was that benefiting for you to be like, I don't like pop music.

Because

[00:25:21] Joy Bracey: always we need to ask this question, right? Who benefits from me thinking this way?

[00:25:24] Nikki La Croce: Well, you're worried about being judged for liking it. So you're gonna deny yourself something that you enjoy.

[00:25:29] Joy Bracey: That's right

[00:25:29] Nikki La Croce: And I was like, oh and

[00:25:30] Joy Bracey: so but those points of discomfort like when I'm hitting that Person who makes me feel not valuable because they don't support me the way that I support them.

That is the universe saying, hello, you're not all the way there. Like, look here, look here, look here. Or when I'm in India and I discover that the cultural norm, especially for women is to push your way to the front of a line. There's no respect for a line. And I'm very justice oriented. So fairness is important to me.

And literally I'll be at the back of the line all day because people like. Push their way to the front. Like this is how they do it there. Yeah. Okay. Like. I am the bad guy for getting upset about it. They are the normal ones for doing it. So like, this is a universe saying joy, this justice orientation you have.

What's that about? Why do you care so much about fairness? You know, the world isn't fair. So like, these are the places where we go. in, we dig in on that we say, Oh, and if we are not in relationship to anyone, if we isolate ourselves from our friends, if we don't have a partner, if we keep our relationships on the surface level, we don't get those as much because other people are mirrors for us.

They show us where those little points of discomfort are, so that we have the little breadcrumbs like Hansel and Gretel, of where we can develop ourselves, where can we, you know, free ourselves of these entrapments that keep us from being our full, shiny, beautiful, amazing selves.

[00:27:01] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:27:02] Joy Bracey: And so those are none of those things to be ashamed of.

Because often, like, when I feel that way, when I'm scrolling, or like have certain people that I feel this way about, I'm ashamed of that. It's a shameful feeling. Like, Joy, who teaches mindfulness and self love is over here being petty on Instagram. Like what? Absolutely not. Right. I love everyone. Yeah. You know, like And so instead of being ashamed, I say, Oh, it's just me being human.

And let me investigate. Why do I feel this way? Why do I feel like this person's lack of engagement with my content has anything to do with me? Well, and it's more about the algorithm. It's more about their preferences for social media. Like maybe they don't like it, but what does that matter? Right?

[00:27:42] Nikki La Croce: Well, God, so, so true.

Nicole and I have had this conversation where it's like, I don't desire to be a content creator for the sake of creating the content. I desire to share an important message. And unfortunately, because of how things work, you have to be very deliberate in the way that you communicate something, when you communicate something, how you interact with people, to try to amplify that message.

And I think it can get really blurry with like what What feels validating for you, because if you're not getting the views, if you're not getting the likes, you see other people having that you don't have that it's built to like sort of sustain this lack mindset. When you have, let's say a video that has 1000 views on it, not even 1000, let's say a couple hundred people get stuck in a couple hundred algorithms or a couple hundred.

I know that's where I'm at. This happens to me frequently. And Yeah. We've had a few random viral hits on TikTok, but they're stupid things. But it's like, we sit there and we're like, 200 people seeing this isn't a lot of people. 200 people seeing it is a lot of people.

[00:28:51] Joy Bracey: It's a lot of people. If you were invited to speak to a room of 200 people, you'd be like, hell yeah.

Right? Right.

[00:28:56] Nikki La Croce: And, and that's the thing is we sit here and we've, we've made it so that like a million is the new thousand. The benchmark. Yeah.

[00:29:04] Joy Bracey: Right. And the

[00:29:05] Nikki La Croce: same thing sort of goes with money, right? Because there's such a gap in, in what people are getting. If you're not making a million, you're making nothing.

[00:29:11] Joy Bracey: When the reality is if one connected person who is genuinely interested in this conversation says, Hey Joy, do you got, you got a minute and a half to spend with me to talk about self love or mindfulness or, or the feelings that you've had today? I'd be like, absolutely. I'll talk to one person for a minute and a half.

So like one of you, you know. And also I've had amazing life changing things happen because of one person who saw my video and they were like someone at Columbia University Teachers College found me on whatever Instagram or something. And so now I'm a professor, adjunct professor. This is one person and that, you know, those videos might only have 250 views or 600 views if I'm lucky, like, but one person who really could change my life.

saw it. Exactly. So that's where we need to put the focus to, you know.

[00:30:02] Nikki La Croce: I know that you, um, had a, obviously a big part of what you talk about and share is your weight loss journey, right? And so it's like people supplement with food, people supplement with shopping, people supplement with working out, you know, there's such a variety of ways to be like, well, I'm not getting the validation or the love that I need.

So, I'm going to do this to, to make myself feel better. And at what point does, you know, sort of giving yourself like a little leeway become a lifestyle and it, and it starts to erode, you know, your ability to carve out that path to self love. It's all about self love really. And I'm really blown away by, um, what you shared with me during our original conversation about, about your weight loss journey.

In particular, you had, um, You had made a comment and I had noted it down that like food was love. And so I think coming from a place where you were able to learn that about yourself and transform to, to recognize that you needed that love to come from within, I think is like a really beautiful way of tying that conversation together.

[00:31:06] Joy Bracey: Yeah, sure. So, and that's a perfect example too, of looking for those points of discomfort, those things that you're ashamed of about yourself, the things that you don't even want to think about. So for me, um, I would say there were times where I had really I was making really healthy food choices, but because I had the disease of obesity, my body was maintaining a very high weight.

Um, and there were times where my relationship with food was really messed up and I would save food that I don't even really particularly enjoy, like packaged little Debbie cakes and things like that. I would have a stock of them in my office drawer in case I need it. And I would feel very anxious if I went to work, so without any sugar in the drawers.

And like, so this was how I lived for a very long time. And even like in childhood, I felt this way, like anxiety, if there was no dessert in the house and this was something I was deeply. deeply ashamed of and did not want to think about and didn't think about. Like I didn't want to actually like bring that up and like process it and be like, ah, gee, let me acknowledge the fact that this is happening.

And it was ruling my life, but I would not really actively think about it because it was so shameful. And in order to figure this out, now I weigh 100 and I've lost almost 200 pounds. It's amazing. 190 pounds. I've lost,

[00:32:36] Nikki La Croce: um, over what course of time, if you don't mind my asking, I mean, it's two years. It's significant either way, not to, but I was just curious how long you've been on this journey.

Two

[00:32:45] Joy Bracey: years. Two years. And I've used all the medical tools that I could possibly find. So I lost a hundred pounds using GLP one medications, happy to share with any of your listeners who want to contact me and learn more about it or listen to my podcast, because I really dove in on the medical side of treating obesity.

It is safe. brain disorder. It is a disease as recognized by the American Medical Association. So I want to say that, like, let's let go of the shame. It is a disease and I used medication and then I had surgery because I had other complications that gastric bypass would help. And, um, so I've used all the tools, but I also knew myself well enough to know that I would eat my way around all of those things if I didn't figure out the emotional side of it.

part of it. I'm a high achieving person. I have wanted to be skinny my whole adult life and failed at that, or at least would only temporarily succeed and then go back to being, you know, my larger size. So like, I felt that if I really wanted to be thin and set my mind to that, I would have done it a long time ago.

So like, what is the benefit to me of being this size? Why do I like it? Because it's the only reason I'm staying here because I have stayed here I'm at the top of my career and like, I would have done this if I really wanted it. I was determined to get to the bottom of it. And as I said, I learned by teaching, I was like, if I'm going to get to the bottom of this using, like, I'm a smart lady, I'm a therapist, I'm gonna put this on a podcast and share it with others because it's hard.

Yeah. So hard. Something I didn't even want to think about for. You know, 25 years of my adult life, I went ahead and just like tell to everyone like all of my shameful secrets about eating and how much I hated myself essentially and I got to the bottom of where did this food come from? is love thing come from?

And I will tell you, like, it came from before I was even, like, my relationship with food was doomed before I even ate a bite of food. My mother was only 16 when she got pregnant with me and she came from extreme poverty and abuse and all of this. And so her trauma was completely unhealed and she couldn't cope with Baby, you know, she loved me very much, but she made some crazy mistakes, right?

And one of those things was that she put the bottle in my mouth all the time. So when my baby teeth came in five years old, or whatever, when teeth start coming in, when you're a baby up until they start to fall out. So up until like, First, second grade, my teeth were all black rotten from having a bottle in my mouth 24 seven when I was an infant.

So for me, food was used as my comfort before I could even make such a choice. Yeah. And I'll never forget my fifth birthday, my golden birthday. My mom had left me, my brother with my dad. And, um, he picked me up from school on my birthday and there was no party, no presents, no. Singing, no acknowledgement really, you know, none of the, well, yeah, he said happy birthday and he gave me, I want to say there was like a rose or some sort of flower, not a bouquet, but like a flower.

And he gave me a dual pack of hostess cupcakes, the ones with the little white curly lines. And we were very poor. And he said that I could eat both of the cupcakes. And that did not have to give one to my brother because in my world, like if we were given a Reese's peanut butter cup pack, I got one and my brother got one.

So, this memory, which sounds so sad and terrible for a five year old little girl to be basically like her birthday ignored, Um, Uh, it's a happy memory because I remember being elated about these cupcakes. Yeah. Like I got both of them. I could eat them both. I didn't have to share. And I loved them, you know, and so by five years old, it was embedded and my brain was already wired to reward me with feel good feelings for eating sugar.

And that is. Something I was so ashamed of, but like, Hey, like actually, there's nothing to do with me or my personal strength or my willpower, or it's just like brain crap. Like people don't understand. Like now, being in addiction for 20 years, I can tell you, that's just brain science. Like that's how we are.

made as animals to keep ourselves alive is that our brain says, Oh, we're getting some good stuff from this. And we're going to go ahead and reward that a lot. So you keep doing it. It's keeping you alive because our brain doesn't actually care about our happiness.

[00:37:22] Nikki La Croce: Right? Well, and also, I think it's important to acknowledge that these companies who ultra process foods, like they're working with craving scientists.

They're, they're building, absolutely. They're building products with the intention. Yeah. of getting you addicted to them, which is like a whole separate conversation. I, I think about that memory that you just shared and I really appreciate the vulnerability of it. Um, I think that that is, it's very touching in a lot of ways.

And the thing that really stands out to me is imagining what it would be like to be five years old and have this excitement of like, this is all for me. Right. And it doesn't, I think you can sort of, um, Remove the fact that like all these other things didn't happen and just think about how like significant that moment was for you.

And it wasn't even entirely about. The food, but it was like the representation, as you said, of what the food was, and this moment that you shared with your father and a moment that made you feel special and validated. You're so young, like you have no idea how that like one tiny thing. seemingly tiny thing, but very significant thing, um, is going to impact you for the rest of your life until you address it, right?

It's mind boggling to know how many of these things in our lives have happened and how many of them we don't remember that are impacting us, right? Because it's not just the one thing that you remember. It's, it's all the things that are happening that you don't even recall. I mean, I was just spending time with my friends from college and they're bringing up memories from 20 years ago.

I'm like, I don't know. Remember that? I'm sure as hell not going to remember what happened when I was three.

[00:38:53] Joy Bracey: And the only reason I know about the baby bottle thing is that my teeth were blacked out and then you know as an adult I'm like hey what why were my teeth black? Yeah. Like what was up with that?

And I learned baby bottle mouth you know it's like I don't remember it but it shaped my whole life.

[00:39:06] Nikki La Croce: Yeah well so in terms of like Navigating, um, your relationship with food and also your weight loss in particular, was there a moment where you started to feel like you were hitting the other side of it, where it felt less about shame and more empowering and motivating for you to keep going?

[00:39:26] Joy Bracey: You mean like less about not feeling bad and more about embracing like finding the good? Yes.

[00:39:33] Nikki La Croce: That's a great way of summarizing what I was attempting to say. Yes.

[00:39:37] Joy Bracey: Yeah, I think so. I think this does happen. I think I'm in that phase right now. I think, um, because at some point not everything has to be about your trauma and your healing and fixing the broken parts and all that.

It can be fun and interesting and you can laugh at yourself. Like, I'll give you like back to the meditation case. I had you know, India is this trip was the most amazing and I love India I love the Indian people and they taught me so much and when I got there I'm by myself in this Himalayan town like in this completely foreign place And when you ask people a question, it doesn't matter how important your question is.

Like you could be saying Which room is my room? Or is this bus going to come? Like, really important stuff, okay? You could ask a question, and most of the time, the answer is this.

Like, excuse me. And so for the listeners, they like wave and nod and look at you like, your question is unimportant. And it literally like that is what they're saying. And I was in this meditation cave after a week in this place. And All of a sudden I start cracking up laughing, which is totally inappropriate in this space.

I ended up getting kicked out of there for a different reason, but that's a story for another day. Um, I did get some good meditation time in before I got kicked out, but, uh, because the, the, the explanation of this gesture, this waving and nodding to really important questions just settled on me, like the knowing of what that's about.

It literally is them saying your question is unimportant. Um, They're saying, go as you will, and it'll be okay. Like, you'll figure it out. Like, you feel like this is important, but actually, if you just keep moving, things will be as they should be. Right, but is the bus coming? Right. You don't need to know, because you'll, you'll figure it out.

Either wait for the bus or you'll not wait for the bus. You'll find an alternative mode of transportation. You'll get where you need to be. And like, this is the way of the Indian people. They often say, be like the water, that you will just fold and flow and go into the crevices and move as the water does.

We are not going to fret about whether the bus is coming. We're just going to keep moving to get where we need to go. And I can't remember now. Oh, the cave. And so this was not a point of me going, Oh joy, what part of you is broken and needs healing? And it's so serious and painful and let's dredge up the past.

No, no. I cracked up laughing like, Oh, okay. Like, Now I get it. This has been very uncomfortable for me because I like answers and order, and it's not that there's something wrong with me. It's just how I operate. And so things can be about joyfulness and curiosity and making that switch from Like, yes, you do have to dig into your trauma a bit.

You do have to think about those things, I think. And you have to want to heal. You have to want to heal. And there is gonna be some pain points there. It's not all fun and games. And I don't think anyone ever finishes that part. Yeah, I agree. But because so I don't think there's ever a moment where it's like, okay, I've gone from I'm healed up.

And now I'm going to start embracing joy. I think the things happen concurrently, but I think there has to be a mindset shift toward curiosity, toward openness. Like, what is the universe going to give me today? Um, you know, like when we started our conversation, you mentioned something just about us linking up and, you know, I'm like, yes, I'm saying yes to the universe because I'm approaching with openness and curiosity.

Right. And so I think when you do that, You're gonna find the joy. You're gonna find the humor. You know, I can laugh about me scrolling on Instagram and being petty and, and bitchy about people that don't cheerlead me as much as I cheerlead them. Because I'm a human being and that's just. Like normal, you know, like, yeah, it doesn't mean that I have to like have deep like talks with myself about fixing that part of me.

No, no, I just can acknowledge it and not feel shame about it and be like, okay, well, that's not who I am and just move on. So I think there's this like shift, but, but it's about openness and it's about letting go of shame. I think it's, It's more like that, like the healing that you need to do. We're so ashamed of all the things that we did in the unhealed place that we don't want to go there.

I don't want to look at it. Yeah. So then that is like behind the scenes, like running the show, like we're little puppets being manipulated by what we're afraid of talking about.

[00:44:30] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:44:31] Joy Bracey: Yeah. It's

[00:44:32] Nikki La Croce: like why anybody doesn't go to therapy. It's like, you're so afraid to talk about the thing that, you know, already to be true.

Okay. You know, it, you it's in you. The reason you don't want to talk about it or deal with it is because of the discomfort of, actually shining the light on it because you're still sitting with it. We

[00:44:52] Joy Bracey: don't know what's on the other side of that. Like, how are we going to live without it? Actually, that's an interesting framework for operating.

Yes. So like if I, for example, shine a light on the fact that there was a stack of little Debbie's in my desk and I literally like my thought around it was in case I need it. Like, hello, neon sign from the universe and from my inner self, like my higher self saying, Joy, look here, look here, there's a problem.

I literally like worked around that my whole life. I did all this other stuff. I went to lots of therapy. I did all the healing, but we're not going to look at this one huge, like 337 pound Like obvious, like, let's look here. Like, I was so afraid that I denied myself. I just completely turned my back on being like, we are not going to look at that because this is my whole framework of operation.

[00:45:46] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:45:46] Joy Bracey: Like food is my comfort. Food is how I feel good. Food is how I cope. So like you hire yourself. You're trying to take that away from me. Screw you like not happen. Yeah. So like, we don't know what we don't know. We don't know what's on the other side of that. And I can tell you like, and the toxic relationship that I was in with a person that I still to this day, love very much.

And I'm very close contact with. He's like a family member at this point. He still to this day can't understand like the changes I was asking him to make in himself that would have brought us closer. He's never experienced the kind of unconditional love in a relationship, the kind of trust and reliability that happens in a full partnership.

So him asking him to turn himself over to it, Was like asking the impossible. That was like asking 337 poi per pound joy to look at why there needs to be little Debbie's in her purse just in case. Like I was not ready to do that. I didn't know what was on the other side. Yeah. So we often are asking of people to operate in a way that makes them abandon their entire framework of operation that they had without an alternative, like, so it takes a certain amount of bravery to say, okay, universe, I'm done.

God, higher self, whatever it is you believe in, like, you got to have my back here. Yeah. Because I'm going to ask myself the question, I'm going to look there, but you got to promise me that there's something better on the other side. And that, if there's one thing that people take from this conversation, whatever it is you're struggling with, whatever is the one thing in your life that you're so ashamed of that you were afraid to look at that the system that we're asking you to, that those nice, like Instagram therapy things are asking you to look at that you don't want to look at?

I promise you there's something better on the other side of you actually looking at. It's a promise. Like every time, a hundred percent of the time without

[00:47:43] Nikki La Croce: fail. Yes, I agree with you completely. And the thing that I would add to that is that it's not always instant and often it won't be instant because it's not, uh, I've acknowledged it and now it's better.

It's I've acknowledged it and I'm doing something about it and doing something about it might look different. For you than it does for somebody else. So it is also, I think tying it back to sort of the whole self love aspect of it is you have to know yourself well enough and to know yourself well enough.

You have to trust yourself and trusting yourself, especially if you've been traumatized, um, or just if you have a very, Critical inner critic, right? Like it's very challenging. So there is an element of faith that is required for you to take that leap and make the decision that you're going to invest the time and energy into yourself.

And as you said, like, there is no question in my mind that like, once you get through the discomfort of doing that, initially you're going to see the payoff. exponentially greater than you ever even could have fathomed. And I feel like that's the part that's so challenging when you're on the, you're right before you're about to take the leap.

You're going, well, I'm not like, am I going to make it over that massive gap from this side to that side? Like I, um, I don't know. It seems pretty dangerous. And you're, and you see people over there and they're like, we did it. I promise you it's totally possible. It's possible. Come over. Like, yeah,

[00:49:12] Joy Bracey: but not for me.

[00:49:13] Nikki La Croce: Right. Right. And, and it's really. It's daunting because I do think sometimes when you see other people on the other side of it, that can also like make you susceptible to your own shame again, which is that they're there and I'm not.

[00:49:30] Joy Bracey: That's right. Oh. And when you relate all this to body image and weight, like it's never more true.

Like for me, that was just like the point where it hits. Cause I promise you, I was that person. Like I am never, when I look in the mirror, like I'm actually like my, um, I'm now no longer overweight, according to the BMI. And I look at myself in the mirror and I'm downright skinny. And I'm like, I don't recognize you.

Like, I never thought I could be you. Like, who is this? And I never thought I would be here. Like, I, I just thought this was for other people and not for me. So I totally relate like people listening. I've lost almost 200 pounds and I'm that person. And I promise you, I thought I could never be that person.

So I relate to you. Like I, feel that and it can be you. And it's whether it's weight

[00:50:16] Nikki La Croce: loss or personal growth.

[00:50:18] Joy Bracey: That's right. Whatever it is. Pursuing a career you want that you're afraid to take the, you know, pursuing an education, pursuing an art. Some people are feel like called to paint, but they say they can't, they can't.

People tell me that all the time. Oh, I would love to paint, but I can't. Right. Like, oh, well, when's the last time you picked up a paintbrush? It's scary to pick up a paint because I'm a painter who doesn't paint very much. Right. And when I, put that white canvas and you put paint on the brush, it's scary.

So like, whatever it is, it could be something as small as that or as big as like, I want to climb, you know, Mount Everest or whatever, whatever fear is holding you back from like those things are possible. And everyone who's done them has at one point thought they couldn't.

[00:51:02] Nikki La Croce: Very true. And I think that one of the things too, when you mentioned the painting, we often see ourselves as failures.

because we have a particular outcome in mind, rather than allowing the experience to be what it is, knowing that there might, I think it's important to have goals and, and in certain situations to have ideal outcomes. Like this is how I would like it to be, but if you spend. And take steps toward that.

Exactly. And if you spend too much time being like, this is the only way I will accept it. to come to me, then you're also limiting the possibilities of what you can achieve. Because what if you're sitting there going, this is the only thing I'll accept when in reality, this other thing's better for you?

Well, you're, you've closed yourself off to all the possibility.

[00:51:52] Joy Bracey: Can I share with you one of my greatest lessons from Mantra to India? I call it, I had, I made my 330 friends. So, When I arrived at the ashram that I was staying in, I was kind of in for a rude awakening. I had pictured this community of spiritual minded people and we were going to be going to yoga and meditation classes all day long and doing, you know, our asana and, you know, satsang where we like sit with spiritual leaders.

That is not what I found at all. In fact, people looked at me like I did not belong. I got glared at, stared at the question. My questions were never answered. Um, I was never shown where, you know, where's the yoga class. Oh, look on that sign right there. Like literally like that. It was kind of, I was treated kind of rudely, to be honest.

And. When I arrived, like the very first day, I'm like, all right, I'll put on my yoga clothes. I'm like, I'm determined at 3. 30, I'm going to find this yoga class. So I go to where the building is where this yoga is supposed to be at 3. 30. No class. And the couple of people that were waiting there were really kind of rude to me and dismissive.

And. Out of a lack of something better to do, I followed these folks to a temple where someone was saying prayers in a language I didn't understand, and there was a woman sitting in the back, and I became friends with her. So instead of yoga, I followed the other people who were supposed to be at yoga, and I met this friend.

Very nice. And we hang out. She's this mystical, amazing person from Austria. The next day, I'm like, all right, I'm going to yoga at 3. 30. This ashram is going to give me 3. 30 yoga. God damn it. I've traveled all the way across the world to do this yoga at this ashram, right? The universe is like, that's actually

[00:53:37] Nikki La Croce: not why you're here and we're going to show you, but wait a second.

[00:53:39] Joy Bracey: Yeah, exactly. And the next day I go to yoga at 3. 30, no yoga. And there's this man standing there, he's, you know, interesting looking fella. And I go over to him, I'm like, No yoga? He's like, guess not. Guess what? He is one of my besties in life now. His name is Hamza. He's from Morocco. He is the most amazing creature.

I just love him. It was instant friendship with this person. And because of those two people that I met at 3. 30 instead of yoga class, I met all these other friends. I built this little community that I had for the next week. amazing place. Like I had friends, we were doing yoga on the beach, on the beaches, the banks of the Ganges river at sunrise, like person I'm going, you know, Hamza and I traveled in caves and mountains and all this.

And so I, I'm literally going to get a clock with three 30 tattooed on me as my remembrance of this trip, not just because those people are so special to me, but because of the lesson that I thought the ashram was supposed to give me yoga at 3. 30 and I was determined that that's how it was going to be.

But actually, the universe had something way better in store for me, like way, way better, like more than I could have ever imagined. Because if I'd gone to class, and those people had been in class, we likely would have just followed the instructor's instructions for an hour and then left. But we had something to.

Complain about the lack of the yoga class that brought us together and also trying to figure it out Well, like where is this yoga class, you know, so it's such an important lesson like the 330 friends and on the trip I brought this Evening gown with me and every single day for the first 15 days of the trip, which was most of the trip I painted on the dress Something, some remembrance of that day, some symbols, some inspiration, something I was feeling.

And then at the end of the trip I had a photo session in the dress and that clock with the 330 on it is one of my favorite symbols of the whole trip. It was just so impactful to me. And so you saying that, you said that, exact thing. I mean, that's so critical for all of us to remember, I think. Yeah. And this is where we can find the joy in life.

Like when we are aggravated, that's when we need to look and say, wait a minute, where's, what's the opportunity here?

[00:56:04] Nikki La Croce: It feels like this is a story that perfectly represents something that we all experience in some way or another. And when I think about, you know, like, what is it that you're choosing to do with the circumstance that you've been given?

I'm going to do this on a much, much smaller scale. My flight back from Mexico, I was surrounded by Many children in small seats getting kicked and screaming. I'm starting to feel frustrated and we're about to take off and I'm texting Nicole and I'm like, Oh, okay. Surrounded by screaming children. Yay. And I was about to text something else.

I see the woman next to me take her like little bag of pretzels that was empty now and fold it into an origami shape after I just crinkled mine up and put it in my cup. And I look over and I witnessed this and I'm like, appreciate this. Like, Embrace the joy of the moment that you got to witness somebody, because it was, first of all, it was the most effortless thing I've ever seen.

She was just like, you know, boom, done. And like, puts it down. Whipped up some art. Yeah. And I was like, Okay, sure. I'm like, but it, but it was, it was, What kind of magical little nymph are you? I was like, this is a, what a beautiful, you know, moment for me to sort of prioritize what was important. Do I want to keep complaining and bitching about this thing that's annoying me?

Or do I want to take this small, again, seemingly insignificant moment and like, allow that to sort of dictate my mood as opposed to. something negative, or at least amplify my mood. And the right. And the thing that, and so this was like a slight evolution of who I am when I travel. And I was, and I did have this moment though, where it's also, it's not just about the fact that I witnessed her do it, but I had this moment and I'm kind of realizing now what it was that it's like, I wouldn't have even thought to like, she saw this pretzel bag and was like, I'm making something.

To bring myself joy, probably, right? Like to just like, I like to do this. There you go. And I'm like, I just crunkled mine up and tossed it in my cup and I was ready for them to take it. And I think that in and of itself too, is like a representation of how are you showing up in life? So kind of like rounded out with where we started the conversation in terms of like the inner critic and our self love, our potential is limitless.

But for us to really navigate this world with the grace and the intention that, or sorry, with the grace and um, potential that we actually have, like we have to be intentional about doing the work to show up for ourselves and finding ways to shut down. the voice in our head that's telling us, who do you think you are?

You're not good enough. You'll never do it because you can and you will if you desire enough to do so. And it's also what's meant for you.

[00:58:59] Joy Bracey: That's right. Yeah. Typically those things that we're ashamed of are the things that are meant for us. We're just afraid it seems so big and so awesome and we're just, don't feel worthy of it.

And so we, You know, our brain does its thing, you know, it plays its little tricks. Really, our brain is trying to shape, save us from, like, whenever you have, so let me just give this one little, for the inner critic healing, um, when the very first thing that you do if you want to address your inner critic is that you tune into it instead of running away from it.

And like I would do, ignore it and even recognize I had one. Um, it's like, oh, that's interesting. And you ask yourself, ask it, What are you ashamed of or what are you afraid of? Because usually that's what's at the root of any of those thoughts. So who do you think you are, for example, was my brain's way of keeping me from taking risks.

Because I've been kind of bold my whole life. I'm always doing things that make my friend's head spin. Like you're, wait, wait, you're, you're moving. You're changing. You're okay. You're getting a doctorate. You're having another baby. What? You know, like all these things. And bold choices can sometimes lead to like falling on your face.

And so there's a lot of fear. Um, and so what are you ashamed of or afraid of is the thing to clue in. And I want to circle back to what you were saying about your thoughts, shaping each moment, because truly how you like, whatever you think your problems are, like some of them may actually be problems that need to be addressed.

Typically they're beyond our control. And. You're the way that you're thinking about your circumstances is actually the problem that you have. So like, is it really a problem that they're screaming children on an airplane? Well, like, okay, yes, it's stimulating. Sure. Like there's some of the kinks there, but really what's the problem is the incessant, intrusive, Thoughts about the noise.

Yeah. I had on my flight home from India, as the final like nail in the coffin of joy, you are going to submit, you're going to submit. I got so lucky, I thought, because there was no one sitting in the middle seat. Yep. On my, And the really large, lovely, beautiful Indian woman who was seated in the aisle seat had ankles swollen, like four times their size.

And she had her bare feet and she was telling me about her back problems. As soon as the flight took off this woman and I can't, I'm not, I got pictures. I have receipts. Okay. She put her head in my lap. And when she would flip, she would put her feet under my butt, those bare swollen feet, like under my bottom.

Okay. And I spent the 14 and a half hour flight with this woman, literally cuddled up to me. Okay. Like, because in India, you get your needs met. She had a sore back. There was this space. She needed it. And so she decided that that was the most important thing. She was very kind to me about it. And if I had been rude to her or been like aghast, I would have been the bad guy in the story.

And I knew this because of two and a half weeks in India. And so I decided like, okay, I am not going to allow 14 hours of obsessive intrusive thoughts about, I cannot believe she's putting her feet on me. Yeah. Instead, I'm going to just be like, okay, we're friends. This lady is cuddled up on me. She needs it.

And occasionally when I need to stretch out, I'll do a little bit, you know, I'll put my feet up here or whatever. I'm just going to be comfortable with it. I'm choosing to interpret this in a completely different way. I don't know that I could have, I'm going to be

[01:02:44] Nikki La Croce: honest with you.

[01:02:45] Joy Bracey: It was the ultimate Like cherry on the top of two and a half weeks of having to submit to crap like this the whole time.

That was my specific lesson in India, because I am a control freak. Okay. And things gotta go the way I want it to go. And it was like the kiss from India that says, no, they don't.

And I swear, I'm grateful to this woman. Because we were in it together. Fourteen and a half hours is a long time. Yeah, it is. And it's uncomfortable no matter what is happening. And I was able to give her a little more comfort. She was in a lot of pain. And also, I felt like the fact that she was such a larger person, was a deep also connection for me to say, what if someone had given me this kindness?

Because airplanes, when I was 337 pounds, were a huge point of anxiety. Airplanes

[01:03:41] Nikki La Croce: right now for anybody of any size are problematic. I like, I'm just going to call that what it is. So I can only imagine, I can only imagine the discomfort.

[01:03:50] Joy Bracey: Yeah. Waiting to look and see someone's face drop when they realize they're sitting next to you as a fat person.

Like, it's terrible. You're sitting there waiting for the person who's going to sit next to you and the moment they realize you're their seatmate is terrible. And so, I felt like it wasn't an accident that this discomfort was, because on the way to India, the entire plane had no hand soap or hand sanitizer.

14 hours of being served by flight attendants who weren't washing their hands. Oh god. To me this is completely unacceptable. Yes, no I'm with you. But I had to accept it. There was no, we were in the air. Like I know I had to accept it. Oh my god. And then on the way back I have this situation. So I feel like how I think about it is the thing that has to change.

I couldn't fix it. I couldn't be rude to her, right? That wasn't an option for me. It's not who I am. Yeah. So how am I thinking about it?

[01:04:48] Nikki La Croce: From our initial meeting, your perspective has been so enlightening and this just, you know, reaffirms all of that. And I feel like there's so much gratitude, um, you know, for who you are and how you show up and sharing.

Those experiences that you have. I'm so glad that we connected after this trip. I'm really glad that we connected after this trip that you had because I feel like, um, there's a lot of, you know, divine synchronicities in what you were able to share and like where this conversation could go. And I feel like there's so much that we could expand on and I'm just grateful for this connection and the opportunity to keep the conversations going.

[01:05:25] Joy Bracey: I'm so grateful for you. Also, I think you're amazing. I can't wait to see what you do. Can't wait to meet your wife. She sounds like an awesome lady. Yeah, she's a good one. I'll

[01:05:33] Nikki La Croce: tell you that. Very grateful.

[01:05:34] Joy Bracey: Yeah. Your

[01:05:36] Nikki La Croce: smile says it all. I love it. I know that, um, you know, you have your podcast is the easy way out.

[01:05:42] Joy Bracey: Yeah. W E I G H. It's the easy way out with Dr. Joy Bracey. It's the whole, it's a six episode limited series just of like. Uncovering how I got the way that I was to 337 pounds, what I needed to unpack, I talked with therapists and other people who had had weight loss surgery and obesity medicine doctors.

Most importantly, I had a conversation in episode two with my two adult children, or two of my adult children, who were chubby as children. and what my parenting was like around their weight and what it was like for them growing up in a so called fat family. And I don't feel like people are having this conversation enough and hearing them and their truth, which was very difficult for me because I did make mistakes.

Um, being vulnerable in that way, I think it's really important. So if you are trying to navigate that as a parent and you don't even want to hear the rest of it, go to episode two. I think it's the most important part. Um, So yeah, there's that. And then people can find my travel adventures and self love and self awareness and all that on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook, uh, Dr.

Joy Bracey.

[01:06:50] Nikki La Croce: Amazing. Gang, that's all for this episode. And Joy, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you and we will catch you all on the flip side. Gang, thanks so much for joining me for this week's episode. I just appreciate your support and it means so much to me that you tune in week after week.

The best thing that you can do to help spread the word about the podcast is if this episode resonated with you, go ahead and share it with somebody else, wherever you listen to your podcasts, or you can go ahead and subscribe to my YouTube channel and share it from there. I also really appreciate it if you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts because that really helps me out.

Give people a better understanding of what the show's about and what you appreciate about the conversations that we're having.