Empowering The Next Generation with Emer O'Donnell

[00:00:00] Emer O'Donnell: As a teenager, you're, you're there to, to leave the nest, which I mentioned earlier. And what you do is you tune in often to your friends, um, to get some bearing on, you know, who you are and what you are. Where there's a real disconnect is where you don't feel comfortable within, and you're looking to fit in with something else that will resonate with you.

And I think the real problem right now is that. So many young people don't feel they're able to show up as themselves and have those deep, meaningful conversations for fear of not being accepted.

[00:00:41] Nikki La Croce: Hey gang, I'm Nikki La Croce and today I'm sharing the mic with Emer O'Donnell and Emer is the founder of Teen Reconnect, a program that works with parents and innovative educators to empower young people to live the lives they love. Emer's mission is just so powerful. I have consumed a lot of your content thus far and I'm so jazzed to have you here and even just in a little bit of time we spent before we hit record, I feel like, um, you know, my excitement, my enthusiasm has elevated.

So welcome to the show Emer.

[00:01:10] Emer O'Donnell: Oh, thank you so much for having me. And, um, yeah, I'm delighted to sit down and have a lovely conversation with you.

[00:01:16] Nikki La Croce: I almost don't know where to begin because there's a lot that you're doing that really, um, I feel like there needs to be more of. Um, so the, The line on your website that is, um, I'm going to say maybe like your mission statement is, um, or belief really is that knowledge empowers young people to know who they uniquely are.

So their future decisions are smarter, enabling them to create better relationships, personal wellbeing and performance. And that's the route to positive change. And I just, that's a big statement, but it's also a very grounded statement. There's a lot of truth to that. There's a lot of reality in that. And there's a lot of, um, It's a, it's a feasible mission.

It's a, it's just about how do you create the space to put those pieces together. So can you share a little bit about, um, whether it's Teen Reconnect itself and, and how you cultivated that, um, that concept and this mission, or just maybe what even kind of started you on the path to get to a place where that's what you knew that you wanted and needed to do?

[00:02:23] Emer O'Donnell: Sure. Um, I really believe that if you don't know who you are, it's very hard to create a life you love. So that's the startling point. And if we don't know who we are, we sometimes make really stupid decisions. Yes. For all the wrong reasons. And often we end up in relationships that are so wrong for us because we don't feel complete.

Did you, did, did you read my backstory? No, no, no. And we clearly have the same journey.

[00:02:53] Nikki La Croce: We are one of many, I'm sure, you know. Yeah. And I, sorry, I was just going to say, I feel like one of the biggest things that I love about what you're doing and the fact that it's targeted towards, um, younger people is that, man, I wish I knew what I know now.

Yeah.

[00:03:08] Emer O'Donnell: Exactly right. Nobody was teaching

[00:03:09] Nikki La Croce: this before, so I'm sorry to interject. I just really like it. I, I'm like, I needed this.

[00:03:15] Emer O'Donnell: Yeah. And, and I think, and, and I think we should evolve sufficiently to realize that you don't have to go through all the pain and trauma because actually the, a lot of that information and knowledge is there.

Um, and I certainly learned that. I mean, You know, growing up, I mean, I looked like I was all together, and I suppose on the whole I was, but I, I know being able to look back that I was looking for someone to fill my life because I felt there was a big chunk of me missing. And as a result of that, I made, I didn't make good decisions.

And I got to a point in my thirties with a one and a half year old child. where I decided to leave a relationship. And, um, and I kind of thought to myself, how in God's name did I get here? And that's where my journey, I think really started. But what I can say is that having that one and a half year old child was such a grounding force for me.

Because I knew with him, I had a real purpose to get up every day, a real purpose to go create, a real purpose to make sure that I could look after him. And I, I, I'm just going to say this, not because I want to plug my book, but at the first part of my book, the first thing I put in, in the quote from him, which he said when he was four years old, when I was in the car and we were backing into the driveway, it was, it's all about love, mum, you just have to put your heart, love.

And that's pretty amazing coming from a four year old, you know?

[00:04:45] Nikki La Croce: I just got chills. And you know, it's amazing. And it's also, I feel representative of the fact that at our core, before we're jaded by all the things that are around us and all the people who haven't healed their wounds, that we know that.

Yes, sure we do. As children, we understand that. So there is I think a lot of power in looking to younger children and their innocence and their sort of blank slate view of everything and being able to see how that resonates as an adult looking at it. And clearly, you know, you felt that impact.

[00:05:28] Emer O'Donnell: Absolutely. And I, I mean, I, I've got three children. I can honestly say, they inspire me every day because they're often wiser than I am. And having got the baggage that I've collected along the way, I try not to give too much of my own. And I'm aware because of the work I do, I'm very aware as I'm heading down that route.

Um, you know, it's like, this is not your stuff. Um, I also believe that when young children are young, they're uncensored, you know, they, they're not frightened to live their truth. I mean, they're okay to say it. You know, Auntie May is, she's got a B. O. problem, you know, they'll say it, whereas we all go, no, no, you're not allowed to say that.

And so over time we just become conditioned to fit in, um, in order to be accepted. And actually for me, the reason I focus in on teenagers is because it's, it's an opportunity for a rebirth, if you, if you know what I mean, because they want to know who they are and they want to push against maybe some of the, um, The lives that they've had with their parents, which suited up to that point, but you know, they're programmed to lead the next and they have to figure out who they are.

But we live in a world now that actually so many of them are overwhelmed. Our brains haven't developed to be able to handle the amount of data that we have to deal with every day. We get more data in a day now than a person got in their whole life in the 19 months.

[00:06:54] Nikki La Croce: Uh, when I read that statistic on your website, it's not surprising.

It's like, it makes total sense, but What I find fascinating is just being witness to that piece of data. It actually really makes you consider how much we're consuming. It's not, it's no surprise that that would be a significant difference because of how vast the techno how much technology has advanced over the years.

But when you really sit with it and think of what we have access to, I mean, as somebody with ADHD diagnosed later in life, and thank God, honestly, by now, because the world was what it is now with the amount of inputs coming in. And I was a child and I didn't have the resources and understanding of how my brain processes information.

I feel like I would be There's a comedian who does a bit about his wife having ADHD, and he said sometimes I feel like I find her like a robot vacuum Just sort of like hitting the corner of a wall like because it's like you just spun around and you don't know where you're going anymore and you're just like I can't take it and it's like that's there's so much information that we have to process and Understanding that as an adult is one thing, but recognizing that and the impact that it has on the developmental, um, cycle for a child and a teenager growing into adulthood is just a completely different story.

Like we, we came in where it was like, the data wasn't fully there yet, and now it is, and we've adapted. They're like, just tossed right into the fire.

[00:08:29] Emer O'Donnell: And they don't necessarily have an off switch.

[00:08:31] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:08:31] Emer O'Donnell: And I think that's a real problem because that doesn't get taught in school. Um, and I also believe that, you know, when you're in that situation, stress emerges, anxiety emerges.

We could look at social media and think, Oh, we live in a perfect world. Everyone's smiling every day with their happy families and, you know, all their holidays and all the rest of it. But, um, it's absolutely true. It's that so much of this generation has been taught to put that Marilyn Monroe smile on. In a nanosecond, I'll take a selfie.

But inside they feel lost and disconnected from who they are. That's what I find. Um, and, and, you know, they feel like they're dying because parents are stressed and that makes children stressed. And when we live in a stressful environment, we don't try. I mean, we need a little bit to get us up off our rear ends to get out and do whatever.

but it gets to a point where actually it's really, it's not a good way to live. We're on, we're on so many people feel they're searching for so much outside themselves to be able to be whoever they think they need to be, that we've lost the connection with our inner voice. And I, and I often use the story of, of a, you know, a marching band.

Where all the drums are going, all the noise is going, but there's the lone fluteman who plays a very simple tune. And if we can calm everything down, we actually do know, but we need the skills to calm everything down. We need the skills in order to know what baggage we collected from our parents. And that comes with limiting beliefs.

And believe me, we all have them. I have at least three. Um, and we need to know how to navigate the mental resistance that shows up too. And I think for parents, it's super important that they know that the world that they grew up in. isn't the world that their children are growing up in. And if you, yeah, no, it's so important.

And, and it's very easy to, because of the way that we're wired and because of the way that everyone gets baggage from their parents, you know, and they don't mean to give it to you. And they, they do love you.

[00:10:46] Nikki La Croce: I mean, some, some of it is, is generational trauma that's embedded in our DNA. Like when I was home over the holidays visiting my family, my dad, um, was in the hospital and you know, I, I, we were having some real hard heart to hearts and I felt like it was one of those moments where I'm parenting my parent and I'm saying to him, dad, you don't even understand where your own shame comes from.

You're a 66 year old man who didn't have the resources, didn't know that this was going to be a problem for you, but like, look at how it's manifesting now, and you're not happy with the way certain things in your life are going, and if you want that to change, you have to figure out where that comes from, and then I'm trying to explain generational trauma to him being Some of it is, is surely the way that you were raised and things like that, that you can reflect on, but there's also probably stuff that you wouldn't even know impacts you.

Like, I know that my great grandmother had been in an abusive relationship, but I don't know how that affected my grandmother and then how that therefore affected my father, which means he definitely has no clue. And so it's like, there are these parts of ourselves that if you, you make the comment about, um, you know, how important self awareness is.

And it's like, you, you're not expected to have all the answers, but if you can feel that you need more information, like that, that will help you somehow. I do believe that we have an innate sense of knowing that it's whether or not, as you've said, like whether we have the tools to do it. Whether we know where to begin, and also, this is something that I think, um, from what I've read of your, your work and in the podcasts I listen to is that we also have to really understand the value of those meaningful connections and the support system that is going to really enable us throughout that path, because there is no doing it alone.

[00:12:42] Emer O'Donnell: No. And, and, and, and I think, you know, the quality of our relationships is the most fundamental thing that impacts both our physical and mental health. And I often ask this question is, you know, who will you call at 3am in the morning when you're at the very lowest? And that's an important question to be able to answer because often we don't want to be vulnerable.

We don't want to show our vulnerability or we're scared to show up because we're not the perfect product that we believe that often our parents want of us. And, um, you know, I think it's, if we don't know how to build, first of all, the relationship with ourselves and being a teenager is a perfect time to do it because they're on that journey of self discovery.

They're widely open for learning. It's just a lot of stuff they learn in school isn't necessarily what they want to learn. And yeah. It gives that opportunity for us to, um, to, to, to review, do I want to keep this? Do I want to let this go? And it also helps, I think, if we can have that better connection within families.

I've taken a lot of the skills that I use as a coach because I talk to both sides. I talk to the teens, I talk to the parents, I give both sides of the story. And I kind of thought, what can I do because parents don't have an A to Z guide? What is it that I do that empowers that trusting relationship when I speak to a young person?

How can I give those skills to parents? Because you don't get them. So we're talking about, you know, active listening. How to deal with feedback, of course, if it's a lousy asset, and it's the second greatest human need to give feedback.

[00:14:26] Nikki La Croce: Well, because how do you improve if you don't have feedback? And maybe even not improve, but, um, Feedback is essential to self awareness, because there are things that we can't identify.

And, you know, it's very hard to be objective about ourselves because we have a lot of emotions going on that are contributing to a massive amount of subjectivity. And one of the things that was life changing for me in terms of identifying the value of self awareness was being able to be more accountable for things that I did by taking a more objective view of it.

Asking, well, did I handle that the best way? Or Yeah. What could I have done different? I mean, literally we did a 12 week coaching program that just ended and on my screen directly beneath your face right now, it's a question that is, that says, what could I have done differently in a moment when I felt frustrated?

Like I am, I'm really trying to, and have been for years now, like look at the big picture and not just my emotional response to it. And I think with parents and children, especially like, so I'm 38, I grew up with parents who are of the baby boomer generation and it was like, they did a really great job in the ways that they could and that they knew how, but there are things that they, you know, I see my sister apologize to her children and I'm like, Okay.

Where were those when we were growing up? You know, and I, and I think that it's like, it doesn't make that a parent is bad because they don't know what to do. I think it's valuable. If you have parents in your programs, as part of your program with the children that you're working with, they're like, yeah.

that are saying, I want my relationship with them to be better. If there are things that I can do to improve that, then I will go and I will do that as well. Like it has to be a team effort when it comes to something like that. And you know, it makes it probably sound more simple than it is in a lot of cases where there are parents who probably just won't care to ever change.

And that's their own issues. And unfortunately, that's what gets relayed to children.

[00:16:32] Emer O'Donnell: But I think most parents love their children. They just don't always know how to do, how to show that, um, and what we do know from the research is that, um, and I'm on a mission to do more of this, is to, um, every, every young person in particular needs a good adult in their lives.

Because, you know, when you're a teen, you're much more vulnerable to mental health issues with all the rewiring and changes going on in your brain. And um, we also know that by having what's called a good adult, that's someone who they feel they can come and talk to, someone that they feel they won't get judged by, someone they feel that they can trust to be there as a kind of a trusted advisor.

And when they have that, they're less likely to get depressed. It's likely to suffer, um, anxiety and stress, and they're less likely to self harm and commit suicide. As a parent, if you love your children. Actually, you should really want to be able to develop more of that good adult. And it's not being the helicopter parent where you're monitoring and managing their every need.

I call it the lighthouse parent because they're going to crash up among the rocks. This is part of the learning journey, right? You know, none of us are perfect and you know, we're here to fail in order to learn, but you're there. You're there to raise them up, help them out as best you can, but you've got to let them play.

You've got to give them some rope to go and fail because they'll learn and they'll thank you because of it. And if you can empower your children to know who they are, know what their talents and strengths are, build the confidence to be able to step out into the unknown where they come from a place of love rather than fear.

And that comes from you. What do you bring into the party? Is it your fear? Or is it true? No. To, to raise them and let them go. For me, that's such a powerful thing because that is just something that will pass from one generation to another, to another. It has a tsunami effect because it affects the leaders we create.

It affects people who are willing to go into the unknown and do stuff that isn't tried and tested because it's safe, but actually doesn't make their souls safe. So for me, when I think everyone comes with a purpose. I think everyone will have a story, everyone will have something that they will learn that they should want to pass on to someone else.

And when you can do that, you really are in a place of service and, and purpose. Whereas I think a lot of young people at the moment are struggling with that because they are so overwhelmed, how they should be, how they should act, you know, all the pressures with education and all the rest of it. that they're losing a sense of who they are and they don't have the skills to navigate it.

And parents are struggling because they don't know what to do.

[00:19:24] Nikki La Croce: Well, you make a lot of really good points there. Something that I feel strikes me in that is when you're of the age, like I think about when I was, you know, let's say like 10, 10 to 18. Um, there's so much happening around you and this is pre internet being what it is today.

So just in general, there's a lot happening around you and now you have to contend with people putting their lives out there. And maybe, maybe it is what their life is actually like, or maybe it's a representation of what they wish their life could be and sort of projecting that out there. And so when I was in school and I'm feeling insecure about like, Oh, those are the popular people or the, and the thing is, is I had friends.

It wasn't a matter of like, Oh, I felt lonely in like the whole of my life, but I didn't feel like I belonged. I felt like there was a clear distinction between who I was and where I, where I fit, um, air quotes for those listening, and then where everybody else was. And so I was kind of that person that bounced around from friend group to friend group and not because I was, I mean, I think it was a lot of times when you're in school, it's a matter of convenience.

Who do you have classes with? Who are you playing sports with? What are these things, etc. But as I got older, I realized that, you know, one of the hardest things for me was that I was very aware of parts of myself that I was hiding that I didn't feel I could show up with. And because of that, I felt like I was sort of just floating out in the world a little bit by myself.

Even though I had these connections and I did form good friendships, there was, as you said, something within me that was holding me back from really showing up fully. And that was at the time, I mean, so I came out, um, as a lesbian to my parents when I was, 19? I knew probably since I was nine.

[00:21:25] Emer O'Donnell: So like,

[00:21:26] Nikki La Croce: that's a long time, um, to really be holding something that is core to who you are as a person and trying to navigate the world as if that's not part of it.

And so how many kids are walking around with what, insert whatever thing about yourself you're not comfortable to share. And how does that affect the decisions that you make and the people that you spend time with, the people that you desire to spend time with? Um, I'm curious from your perspective, do you see sort of that withholding nature, especially in teenagers, that withholding nature, like really impacting their ability to form those deeper connections, first of all, to themselves, as you're saying, but also in terms of really understanding the types of relationships that they want versus those that they're sort of made to believe they should have?

[00:22:17] Emer O'Donnell: I think, I think where the disconnect comes at, you know, As a teenager, you're, you're there to, to leave the nest, which I mentioned earlier. And what you do is you tune in often to your friends, um, to get some bearing on, you know, who you are and what you are. Where there's a real disconnect is where you don't feel comfortable within and you're looking to fit in with something else that will resonate with you.

And I think the real problem right now is that so many young people don't feel they're able to show up as themselves and have those deep, meaningful conversations for fear of not being accepted or not fitting in. Because the fear is real. And I think that gets reinforced with kind of likes and, you know, on social media, you might post something, you don't put your head too high above the power pit unless you're, you You're really sure about who you are because it can be lobbed off and, and, and, you know, reputations, I suppose in a way, and if that's how you want to describe it, can be destroyed in a day.

So that fear is very real. And also there's a lot of comparison, social comparison going on now, you know, I only have to worry about the people in my circle growing up. Now you can compare yourself with the whole world and see everything that's wrong with you.

[00:23:37] Nikki La Croce: I mean, even as an adult, like that, that transcends age at this point, right?

I mean, plenty of people, whatever you're looking at, you're going to see more of because the algorithm is going to feed it to you. So if you're sitting there watching a bunch of stuff that makes you feel bad that you don't have it, or that that's not your life, then you're, you know, you're Unfortunately, that's what you're perpetuating.

So you have to like get yourself out of this cycle, that mindset that I, that place of lack that I want, that I don't have that, or I want to be that, but I'm not that. If you want to be that, then start figuring out what that looks like for you. But is that actually who you want to be?

[00:24:13] Emer O'Donnell: Exactly.

[00:24:13] Nikki La Croce: And I don't know that a lot of people know that.

[00:24:15] Emer O'Donnell: Well, they don't know because it depends on the story that they tell themselves. And for me, the biggest thing we could ever teach anybody is to challenge that story. Is your story serving you? Is it true to you? Because what I always say is we're all unique. Why are you following anyone? Every single one of us is unique.

Why do you want to show up as anybody else? And actually the people who can show up with courage and, you know, are true to that. Actually, the ones that most people really admire the most, because everyone wants that.

[00:24:49] Nikki La Croce: The outliers tend to be the people that actually magnetize the most people because they're coming from a place of typically a place of authenticity.

Sometimes it's shock value. And I think that those are very different circumstances, but when you're showing up as your true self with the intention of just being who you are. And if the people come, the people come, because especially, I say that in a way of like, personal connections. And also, let's say we're in a very big creator economy right now.

Most people who have a business right now, us even just doing this, right? We're putting our faces out there. We're putting our voices out there and we're saying, this is who I am. This is my story. This is what I'm trying to give to the world. I want more people to listen. Not because I'm like, I need my numbers to get higher, but because I genuinely believe in the value of what's happening.

And when you focus on the intent being genuine, and as you said, to serve others and what suits you and what serves you best as well, that happens, I think a lot more organically, but it's, There's a lot of contradiction, I think, emotionally for a teenager, where, I mean, my therapist said to me, because I had a really isolating experience in, in seventh grade, where I lost a group of friends.

I've talked about this a lot on the show. I lost a group of friends because they thought I was a lesbian. That closeted me for a lot longer than I would have stayed, probably. Um, And I'll own that because that was my choice, but it was this feeling of deep social isolation, fear that I was not going to have friends if people found out who I was.

And my therapist said to me, like, literally, that is the worst time for it to have happened to you because it is the time in your life where social connection is like everything to you. So when you say that it felt like it was your entire world, at that point, your brain literally thought it was.

Absolutely. And it blew me away when she said that. I was like, I think I just felt like maybe I was making too much out of it. Or, and it's like, no, to your point at that age, that's where we start to be like, how do I find my own place, self actualization, and then to have that shut down effectively, and then feel like I have to withdraw from myself.

I have to betray myself to fit in. Now it's just this completely different path that you're going down and hopefully you can navigate in a way, maybe you take a couple of detours, but you get back around to, Oh, that is who I am. And I'm okay with it. In fact, I'm going to own it. And that's, that's a good thing.

And I'm going to bring that to the table, but it's not this very linear path where you're just like, everything's going great in my life. Check, check, check. Here we go. We're doing it.

[00:27:29] Emer O'Donnell: No, because I think it's only through through the stuff, the challenges is that we really truly understand who we are. Um, but what I also believe is you don't have to go through a lot of those challenges if you've got the skills in order to be able to navigate.

[00:27:41] Nikki La Croce: Especially now, because there's so much more that we can consume to learn. And it's, there's so much that's free. Like, I feel like a lot of people doing what you're doing with the intention of like, yes, you have a business and you have a book and you have things that are promoting this. Because you need to get the message out, but there are so many people who are literally like, I will do this just because I need you to know this information.

When you sent your book to me and in the message, you effectively said, it'd be great. You know, if you can read it, if you can write a review and it's not about promoting my book, it's about helping save lives and help people really know themselves. And I was like, this is a person I need to talk to because that's the right reason for doing it.

[00:28:22] Emer O'Donnell: And that's exactly the reason why I wrote it. You know, because if I've got something that I can bring and share with, you know, three happy, healthy children, thank goodness, I must be doing something right. And I also know what it's like to have been in that place of stress, having left a marriage, having a very small child, um, you're going to go and work for, for a race team and discovering, um, not long after that they were going to go bankrupt.

I'm thinking, holy moly, what am I going to do now? But what I saw was, I saw these racing drivers, cool it's cucumbers, totally, you know, pretty much in control. Who live day to day for the next race. Because that was what they were totally focused on, that's what they wanted to do. And I thought, they're not running around like a headless chicken like me.

They know who they are. And they can also make time to have some fun. So that kind of whole concept of being present, which is, you know, it's probably more mainstay now, but it wasn't back then and I took that and just thought, okay, there's an opportunity for me to learn here and then almost having to go, okay, well, what do I bring to the party?

Cause I've kind of drifted the whole way here. So what is it that I can bring so that I can, you know, work and support my child? And if there's one thing I've learned is, um, you know, it's focusing on the here and now I remember getting a contract for three months, um, because I really didn't want to go into, uh, You know, a nine to five job where I wouldn't be able to spend some time with my son.

And this is, you know, this is 25 odd years ago. And, uh, when, you know, people didn't work from home, they didn't have high working, but being really clear and had setting that intention, actually, the reason I wanted is, is because of the love of my son. And I'm going to see if I can create that. And I think if we can come, we're very clear about what our values are, a very clear intention about why we want to do something that serves not just you as a human being, because it feels like it resonates with you, but it also serves those you love, then actually you can create anything.

And I was blessed because I went back to the area of work I'd been in before. I made, uh, contacted people that I knew and I said, give me work. This is what I can do. And they said, yeah, we'll give you a three month contract. You don't have to come into London. You can work, you know, you can come in, you know, once a week if need be.

And then I thought I can spend my time worried about the fact that it's going to end in three months or I can focus on what I can deliver. And I ended up working for them for a year and thereafter I got the perfect job. With, uh, an old boss of mine who created a position for me that was totally flexible around my son.

And so for me, I knew that if he was happy, I was happy because that was my, well, you know, he, he showed me more than anything, what I was capable of. So I'm forever grateful for that.

[00:31:27] Nikki La Croce: Absolutely. I mean, what a testament to, and you, it, I love that you made the comment about working with the race car drivers because I feel like that's something that you don't do that unless, like, you really feel like you're meant to do that.

That's a different level of commitment. I had no idea until I watched the Netflix shows on Formula One racing. I was like, I was completely unaware of just sort of, All of the inner workings of it. But you see something as with any athlete, right? You know, it's almost for somebody who has a natural talent and a passion who can combine those things.

We see it, I think, come to fruition at least publicly a lot more with something like athletics or, or, um, I guess race racing is kind of an athletic, um, you know, it, they're very. They're very specifically outcome driven things. It's like the goal is to win. And so you, you have a very clear understanding of these are the things that I ultimately have to do to be able to make my way, make my name in the industry, et cetera.

Whereas when it comes to sort of the nine to five stuff, I've done it and I, from the beginning, didn't want to do it, did it anyway because I needed to. And it was like, Even though you can kind of see where you could go in this confined space, it still was confined to me. I was like, this will never be enough for me.

And it's not that it might not be enough for somebody else. But I know that I will always feel trapped if this is how I have to exist. And so when you made the comment about being present wasn't really sort of the term in common use at the time. I totally get that because I, I, before I started therapy, even five years ago, I feel like if somebody said to me, Oh, you need to be present.

I probably would have been like, okay, you know, screw off. I, what does that even mean? And now it's like that intentionality that comes with sitting with it, sitting with yourself, being present, giving yourself space to acknowledge what you feel to feel what you feel and to reflect on it because that's the thing that you're really hitting on is the essential nature of the reflection.

Once you take the time to identify it, do you feel like there was a point in time where you felt like the obvious shift into the work that you're doing now to I know I want to help other people cultivate these relationships with their children, help children and children being sort of broad range of human beings that are not yet adults, be able to formulate, you know, a better sense of who they are.

Was there a turning point that you really recall that propelled you in that direction?

[00:34:13] Emer O'Donnell: Uh, absolutely. So, um, so I worked for many years, I'd worked in publishing for many years, blessed, traveled the world and all the rest of it. And I decided I wanted to retrain and become a behavioral change coach because I've got a background in psychology, even though I'd worked in business.

And um, I went and did a, uh, a master's at a place called Henley Business School, which is a, what's a business school in London and part, it's a late line, um, uh, Reading University. Yeah. Absolutely. And I came out of the end of that, and I tell you, it was just transformational what you learned. But I came out of the end of that thinking, this stuff ain't rocket science, but why don't we teach it to young people?

Because that could have been transformational for me to have been able to ask the right questions, to make better decisions, understand how our emotions work, understand how stress and anxiety works, to understand how we can achieve wellbeing in order to, you know, to perform. Why don't we teach it to young people?

Because it's so obvious that they need it at a time when they're lost often, um, or struggling to figure out where they are. And even more so now because they're being asked to make decisions much earlier in their lives where they don't have the data or the know, you know, the self knowledge to be able to make good decisions.

And the last thing they want to do is fail because they're not encouraged to do that either. So for me, that was a turning point. I could see that there was an absolute gap. In terms of educational provision. And that's what started me off in a journey. I created something with an amazing team of psychologists called the QPAP Finder, which empowers young people to understand what makes them tick, it's a digital device.

And then COVID hit, um, and I thought, okay, get this out there in the world. So what can I do? Forever adaptable. And I thought, I'm going to use it as a coach. And on the back of that, I created. The program, the 7Q Teen Reconnect formula, which actually has been all my learning. How did I survive those difficult years, uh, of transition plus how, what have I taken from my, from my studies in terms of being a behavioral change coach?

What can I bring to that as well? Because it'll come back to that one thing I said to you early on. If you don't know who you are, how can you create a life you love? And empowering people to know who they are and that starts with self, so that they can build really positive relationships with those around them and be able to distance themselves from those that are not aligned with them.

Because you know us, we're not going to like everyone and not everyone's going to like us and that's okay. And when you can do that, that puts you in an amazing position of being empowered rather than being a victim load. And it's very easy for us to fall into victim mode and it's about taking responsibility, but it's also about, you know, what we don't see controls us, but what we see, we have some chance of being able to manage, but we need to know about our stories.

We need to know about our. biases, we need to know about our prejudices, and we need to know when we're not aligned. And for me, that's what my work's about.

[00:37:29] Nikki La Croce: So something that you said earlier about making sure that we're sort of challenging our beliefs, I liked that because it was a very transformative moment for me when I realized I had the ability.

And it's not, Like you said, it's not rocket science. We all have the ability to do it. It's the awareness and then making the decision to do it that changes it. And I remember when I started this podcast, really thinking a lot about who am I? Why am I like this? Do I like that this is how I am? Is there a reason that I need to stay this way?

Can I change it? Do I want to change it? How do I change it if I want it to change, you know? And so there's a lot of questions that come from just that little bit of, is all of the stuff that I believe really mine? And I don't believe that at least when I was growing up for sure, and I, I mean, you see it now, I don't need to say it as if it's like not still a problem.

There's a lot of, adults, um, who are probably ill qualified to be sharing information that is not correct, or, um, at the very least just detrimental to like somebody's psychological wellbeing. Enforcing the idea that this is the way that it should be, this is who you are, this is how you have to identify, this is how you have to go about your life, the things that you need to enact because of that, and not giving space.

For a person to find those parts of themselves that will make them stand out, that will bring them joy, that will magnetize the really healthy, strong connections. And I just, I feel so connected to what you're saying because there is, um, have you read or listened to Brene Brown's book, Atlas of the Heart?

[00:39:23] Emer O'Donnell: No, but I, I do know who Brene Brown is. Yeah.

[00:39:25] Nikki La Croce: She goes in and she basically explains from a very research back cause that's who she is, a very researched back. Um, perspective of laying out the different emotions and, um, the way that those connect to each other and sort of groups them in a really unique way where it's like the ones that are related to each other that we sometimes confuse or conflate.

And there's one chapter on connection and belonging and something that was really fascinating. I was trying to find it before we met and I couldn't find the right, um, timestamp for it, but she. Asks a group of I want to say maybe like fifth or seventh graders or something what the difference between fitting in and belonging is and they had such beautiful answers because it shows that the people at the ages that you're you're working with primarily right that they understand you.

when they're feeling compelled to fit in versus free to find a sense of belonging. And I just was so grateful for those responses, because it gave me this really strong sense of hope that Some of the messages are coming through. You might not always get it right because you're still a young person with learning to do and your emotions are more challenging to regulate, but the fact that there is sort of this innate knowing and awareness of I can feel the difference.

of when I'm trying to, as my wife and I always say, like, cram that square peg into a round hole, or if I'm just like, that's not where I belong. It's okay. And, and we need to be comfortable acknowledging that not everyone is for everyone. And in fact, the boundary setting that comes with that in and of itself is a really important skill to have.

And I don't know that, I think there's more education around it, but I think to your point, it's like, these are the things that I would like. for human beings to be learning so that we can grow into a more functional society as adults.

[00:41:33] Emer O'Donnell: Yeah, because I think so many people, you know, a bit like I did, don't get me wrong.

I had a great time, you know, all the way up to my thirties. I had great jobs. I really enjoyed them, but you know, I don't really think I gave any thought to why am I here. I was just in that, that space. Um, and it wasn't until kind of that, that, that crux hit that, that, that I really went, how'd I get here?

Wake up and smell the coffee. Yeah. But I think, yeah, I think that's so important, but I actually think there's, there's a need for like a, I suppose if I use a kind of the word, the higher consciousness to come through because we're destroying the world that we, that sustains us. You know, in a funny way, there's a lot of wars going on in the world at the moment, and that's the last place we should be.

We're just creating more destruction, and it's almost like a form of resistance, not dealing with the problem at hand. And ultimately, who's going to inherit our mess? It's this generation. Who aren't even part of it. No, they're not. But almost, you know, they're almost exhausted by it. And so for me, letting them know that it's okay to be you.

There's only one like you, you, you, there is a purpose for you. You do belong and you can find that in yourself. And as a result of that, the energy that you can create, you can, you can create the energy you want. You know, if you understand how your emotions work, if you know, if you know that they do give out this vibrational field, if you do know that the, the bridge between the negative ones that make you feel lousy and the amazing ones that we all really want is, is courage.

And you can ask yourself every day when you're in fear, What do I have to do in order to step into my courage and just be prepared to go into that unknown, unknowing. Then actually, when we do that, our confidence grows, our ability to create grows. And if there's one thing I've learned on my journey, You know, leaving, I suppose, what was more of a regular job when I was, I'm looking after my, my eldest and I've had a great time because I can't work anywhere if I don't actually love it because I just feel like it corrodes my soul.

Um, being able to go on this journey, I have learned so much just working for myself. I'm always aware when, when challenges comes up. I ask myself, now, is this teaching me anything about being a young person? Is there a parallel processing going on here that enables me to better understand what it's like to be in their shoes?

So that actually I can really understand that and I can sit with them with that, because I think we're always going to be challenged because if we're confident all the time, we're actually not learning. We're in a, we're in a, we're, we're in a comfort zone or sometimes we're in an uncomfortable comfort zone.

That's what I

[00:44:24] Nikki La Croce: call it. That's an important distinction and I appreciate that.

[00:44:27] Emer O'Donnell: Absolutely. Absolutely. And we can be stuck in it. It can all look perfect on the outside, but you know, you never know what's going on behind closed doors. That's what I always say. Um, but if you're, if you can stick with that tension that's created between where you want to go and where you currently are, and you just take little steps every day towards this, even though you're never sure how things are going to manifest, apart from the fact that you want to create X.

That's physics. And often we want to jump off and away from that tension, and that's when actually our power gets diminished.

[00:45:07] Nikki La Croce: Mm hmm. Yeah. I, I love that you just went there too. I had almost an identical conversation with my dad.

[00:45:14] Emer O'Donnell: Where I

[00:45:15] Nikki La Croce: said, you are stressed about all this stuff that's over here, you know, my mom passed away a couple of years ago.

It's been this very sudden, it was super hard on all of us. And he's trying to figure out, you know, selling the house, retiring, doing all the other stuff. And it's like, but you're existing in this state of anxiety and stress about it. And so what you're thinking about is the anxiety and the stress about it.

There's no denying that that's there. Like I legitimately understand those feelings and that's valid. And also. You want all this stuff that's over here. You want to be able to move closer to my sister and her kids. You want to be able to, you know, have the freedom of retirement to do the things that you want and have these other experiences.

But there's this part right here, this, this part that you're like, Hmm, I don't want to deal with the discomfort. And my, the thing that I say more than anything else I'm sure on this show and in life is I would rather be uncomfortable for a brief moment in time. then in perpetuity. And when we are in that uncomfortable comfort zone, that's what we're doing.

We're staying in that pocket of discomfort because it's familiar. It's familiar discomfort. It is not comfort. Don't mistake it for the same thing. And so when you can actually like, Push yourself through and it can take time. It's not immediate. Like you said, it takes steps. It takes, you know, various degrees of self knowledge that you're gaining and Skills and empowerment that you need and ideally you have a support system in place to help you through that But once you're on the other side, oh man, what a trip.

You're like, why was I there for so long? Why did I wait? You know, so it's like, I, I really try to encourage people and, and do this to myself as well when I'm in my own state of denial of my discomfort is like, do, how much do I want that thing? Or how much do I want to be that person? Because if I know that I want that, then I'm the only thing standing in my way.

And I now have to figure out what is the thing that's holding me back. And your point about addressing the resistance, is so incredibly important. It doesn't matter what age you are, because we're always going to feel it.

[00:47:25] Emer O'Donnell: Exactly. It doesn't go away. Only as soon as you've managed to champion one resistance, another one will show up because your ego wants to keep you where you are, because that's the tried and tested.

Even if it's really bad for you, it wants to keep you stuck there. But you know, we need an ego too, in order to be able to balance things out and navigate our way around sometimes. But it's when It's when, yeah, it's when, when fear, I mean, the amazing thing about fear, I think we're born with two fears, loud noises and what's the other one?

Bad noises, and I've forgotten the other one now, but there are two. They'll probably come back to me, and the rest we learn. Is the

[00:48:04] Nikki La Croce: second one possibly something related to like, abandonment? Because I feel like young children, like, who are, because they don't know anything, right? Other than like, they need somebody to care for them.

[00:48:15] Emer O'Donnell: I, I, but I'm not sure as a baby you had that. You know, I think when you're born, it's, it's, I think it's falling and loud noises. They are the two things that really are the things we're scared of. And, and the rest are all the stories we pick up. And of course we also pick up all those limiting beliefs, which are often unconscious.

We pick up and they can be from something really simple that a parent has done and we'll just repress them the wrong way. You know, whether I'm not worthy, I can't trust anybody. There's 12 key ones and we pretty much have two or three. And if you don't know what they are, you will continue to be sabotaged by them.

And you know, often when I, when I face a challenge, I often ask myself to depersonalize the mission. It's not about me. I'm just the messenger. That's the only reason why I'm doing this stuff, because if it makes a difference, it's great. Um, and yeah, and, and, and for me, if I, if I can support one family or I can prevent one young person from, um, deciding to, you know, take their life.

Or helping them to rebuild their lives. Then for me, that's work well done. And, but I, I know there's only one of me, so I want to empower more of those good adults so that actually we can create more of those and we can create happier relationships. Well, hey, yo, who doesn't want that? You know, it's know that you can call someone at 3am in the morning.

There is someone on your list and they're not going to go, hang on a second. You're not showing up as perfect. And, and, and you feel comfortable with that. I think when we know we have someone like that in our pocket, it's really powerful.

[00:49:49] Nikki La Croce: And I like that you refer to it as a good adult. It's sort of, um, I like it as an alternative really kind of to role model, because I think that's something that people kind of aspire to, whereas there is like a, a.

A safe space to show up and I had that. We had a neighbor who lived directly behind us growing up, Kathy, who I would say like growing up was like a second mom to me. I felt like I, there was space there. And even before I came out to my parents, she was the first person that I told because she was also queer.

And so like, I felt like, okay, not only is that a person that I feel like I can show up with before I'm, aware of how to navigate this with my parents, but I also know that there's a relatability there that makes me feel safer. And I think that that's like, it's one of those components of belonging. This person already was family to me.

But then there was this added layer of, okay, there's something that aligns within our, our stories. That gives me the go ahead to be able to share part of mine and be more vulnerable to get to a place where I could feel more confident and comfortable in sharing that with other people. I mean, because I was at that point.

I want to say 18 or 9, I think probably 18 at that point. So it's not like I was, I was young, like very young. I had developed what at that point I thought was my sense of self, which in retrospect was still very, um, I think stifled by other life circumstances, but this was a really big part of myself that I had to show up with.

And I, you know, I never really thought about what it would have been like if I didn't have that person in my life. And I, It was so instrumental for me to even get to where I needed to go that it didn't even occur to me how I would have navigated if she wasn't there. And so that's the beauty. We need more of those.

It makes me want to be like finding people and being like, can I be the good adult for you? Like in a non creepy way. I just want to help. Like, please.

[00:51:39] Emer O'Donnell: But doing, doing the work you do at these podcasts absolutely empowers you to do that. because you share your story and, and you talk about it. And so I have one question for you, which maybe I'm not supposed to do on a podcast, but I'm curious by all

[00:51:53] Nikki La Croce: means.

[00:51:54] Emer O'Donnell: So, you know, you just said that when you were about nine, you discovered that, that, that you, you were gay and lesbian. And, um, and then it was that long period before you were able to felt confident enough to come out. So I'm curious, what was the story that you told yourself during that time, and obviously we took, we talked about, you know, the fear of people not accepting you, but what was the actual reality when you did come out?

And I know it's different for everyone, you know, because not everyone gets a good reception. I do understand that. So that's, that's the power of story, right? Am I allowed to ask that?

[00:52:34] Nikki La Croce: Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Um, I love it. I think it's a great question. It's something I've explored a lot in therapy. So I have a relatively good, good handle on that.

So, um, So I'll say that when I was nine, it was like, I was aware of it, but I didn't really understand it. Um, because I actually, so when I was in second grade, I, I like, I don't know, I was being a little punk and I was pretty much a goody two shoes. I don't know why I did this, but I tripped my student teacher who was walking by and a classmate of mine called me a lesbian.

And then I went home and asked my parents what a lesbian was because I didn't know. And then, um, my mom explained it to me and I was. I think mad that this person called me that and I didn't understand enough about myself to know that I had any sense of that. Um, but then, you know, when my mom explained to me what it meant to be gay, um, she said, you know, there are people in our lives who are gay and like, you know, we love them just the same.

And the thing that. In retrospect, I think she could have done differently because I asked who and she said, does it matter? And I think she was trying to prove the point that it doesn't matter. We love them anyway. But what it actually did was sort of reinforce that, like, we don't need to talk about that.

[00:53:44] Emer O'Donnell: And I don't

[00:53:44] Nikki La Croce: think that was her intention. I think it was just like her way of trying to kind of I was so, I was pretty young. I was in second grade at that point. Right. So it was like, I don't know that I need to try to explain all this to you right now. Um, however, by the time I was nine, I obviously understand what this is.

And then I'm starting to have like feelings like, Oh, I have a crush on this person, but no, I can't have a crush on that. And I was always kind of a tomboy. So I was like, maybe it's just a, like, I think that I like girls. Cause I feel more like, um, like I'm kind of boyish, but it was never about my gender identity.

Um, not that I knew that back then, but I can say that confidently now. And so. When I got to seventh grade and I had a crush on somebody and it's like a little embarrassing to admit it now, I have a little cringe in my body over it because if they listen to this one day, they'll be like, I fucking knew it.

Um, so to be fair, good gaydar. Um, so they, they, one of them essentially made the choice to say this, that proliferated in the friend group. And then that extended to other friends that I had that then sort of alienated me a little bit at the time. I regained some of those friendships back over time, but because of that, I always had a boyfriend because I love making connections with people.

It was really easy for me to meet somebody that I liked enough to want to spend time with them and as a teenager to make out with, you know, and so it was like this, this is serving its purpose for what it needs to be right now. So when I got to the place where I was, like, I met my first girlfriend, um, the lot, like, after I'd graduated high school, like the week that we all go to the beach and you meet random people from other schools sometimes.

Um, and I realized, okay, this is like truly how I'm feeling, but I was kind of one foot in one foot out the door because I didn't want to have to tell people. So it was still kind of masquerading as if I were straight. And when I made the choice to come out to my parents, it was, I told my sister. And I told a couple of my best friends, they were all super supportive.

There was no indication at all that they, that they were judging me, that they weren't comfortable, which was my biggest fear was I was going to alienate people again. When in reality, I didn't alienate people before they kind of, it was, it was, an unfortunate social isolation that I experienced. And so my story was, if I tell people this, they will alienate me.

They won't like me. They will tell other people not to like me. I won't have anyone. I will be alone.

[00:56:11] Emer O'Donnell: And

[00:56:12] Nikki La Croce: for me, as somebody who's literally started this with the purpose of, I believe and know my purpose is to connect with people. There was no greater fear than I won't have anybody to connect with. And 20 or at this point, 25, 26 years ago when that social isolation happened, like people weren't in middle school coming out.

People weren't in high school coming out. You were going to be ostracized if you were part of the gay straight alliance where there were like a handful of people because you were either gay or assumed to be gay at that point. And so it was really, It was good to know that like my friends were in a place and my sister were in a place where it was just like, it wasn't really a thing.

It was just an acknowledgement of fact, um, and that made me feel a lot safer. The challenge came when I told my parents and they were resistant. Not because they have a problem with, with people in the queer community because they don't, but it was this feeling, uh, and they said this too, which I think probably made it worse, was it's different when it's your child.

And I was like, if it's different when it's your child, you should be more supportive. And it was really hard as a late teenager, early twenties to not have a sense of resentment about that because it was like, they made the response to my coming out about them. not about everything I had gone through that led me to a place where I needed to share that with them.

And so actually right before my mom passed away, I was so lucky and so grateful that I had this conversation with them. So I had left this really bad, toxic, abusive marriage and I was staying with my sister and it was still mid COVID. So like I went against what anybody would have advised and I flew across the country to go be with my family.

And And my mom asked me why I don't, she said, I don't know why you felt like you couldn't share this with us sooner. Like how bad my relationship was and how traumatic the things I was going through were. And I, cause I had talked about this in therapy, I said, the way you responded when I came out made me really fearful to be vulnerable with you about this.

[00:58:20] Emer O'Donnell: Because

[00:58:20] Nikki La Croce: I didn't know how you'd react and it's like, I, I, like, I, thinking about it right now in that moment, like, I still remember it very vividly, which is sort of this, I think, recognition, like, she didn't necessarily say it in whatever she said was compassionate, I'm sure, but I more remember the feeling of like her hurt that, like that instance.

like traveled with me through all these years and all these emotions and led me to this place of I can't expose this because I'm worried about how you'll react. I'm worried about your judgment or whatever it is that you feel is going to be projected onto me. And so I know that was like kind of a lengthy explanation of it, but I feel like the context is important because it was never that they weren't.

supportive of me or didn't love me or even alienated me, but there was about a year after I came out to them where my dad kept the lines of communication open more and I was always closer with my mom. Um, just similar personalities, which also meant that we butt heads a lot more. Um, and so, When I got to a place of like, I need you to just figure out how to accept this.

I remember my dad saying, there's just some hurdle we can't go over, get over. And I was like, you need to get over it. Like, that's it. And I said to them, you keep saying you want me to be happy. Well, this is my happiness. This isn't yours. And so, you know, I'm not going to compromise who I am for you. And once we got past that point, Now granted, they didn't like my ex and that was all completely justifiable in retrospect.

That was totally reasonable, but that wasn't about me being gay. Um, so, so I think, you know, once they understood when they would say, we don't want to lose you. And I had to say, well, if you keep acting this way, you will.

[01:00:04] Emer O'Donnell: It was

[01:00:04] Nikki La Croce: like taking charge of that situation, being like who I am and me being fully who I am is more important than how you respond to it.

So if you can learn to respond to it in a way that's more compassionate, because I do believe you love me the way you say you do, then we can move through this. But it was definitely, um, I'd say overall, the belief that I would be isolated, that I wouldn't connect with people was false. I actually connect with more people now than I ever have, not even because of that, but because I'm showing up fully.

And with my parents, I think, you know, as hard as it was in the moments when it was difficult, being able to get to a place of that vulnerability right before losing my mom was like one of the most powerful moments in my life.

[01:00:50] Emer O'Donnell: It's beautiful. And I think what it really demonstrates is that we can have one experience.

And we think if we try and do the same thing, we're going to have the same experience again. But that's not necessarily the case. That one experience you had in school was because the people you were with weren't aligned with you. And, and, and the fear of being excluded is so great because, you know, we come from, you know, we, we were brought up on the savannah in groups and if we got slung out, we were going to die.

And it feels like death. It's so weird. We're like, we have not evolved properly. Our ego keeps us there. But equally, because we have so much information that we have access to in any given moment, you know, I think there's 11, 000 bits of information that are out there. And we can only actually process about 40 to 50 consciously.

And so what our brain does is it's, you know, it's got a faulty filter, so it likes to kind of connect things, but the experience back there, it was reconnecting it in this situation, but it wasn't getting it right. And so often we have to be really aware of just because that happened before, it does not mean it's going to happen again.

[01:02:08] Nikki La Croce: That's a really good point. I love that you, that you said that. Yeah. Like, um, past performance is an indicator indicator of future performance, that sort of mentality. Right.

[01:02:17] Emer O'Donnell: Exactly. And then just because that you've got that reaction and often that's what can happen to us when we were in difficult relationships, we think it's going to be the same thing and we, that's the future we create in our heads and that's the behavior that we engage in then, and then we can redo it if we don't have an awareness around of what we're doing.

We're all self sabotaging. So, and I think it's beautiful. I love the fact, and actually I feel like it tunes in some way into the work I do. The fact that you were able to hold your truth and have that really honest conversation about who you were with your parents. And, and, and for them to realize you have to accept me for who I am, because isn't that what we all want?

[01:02:57] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, absolutely. I think it totally ties in. In fact, I'm so glad that you asked that question, Emer, because it was something that I've done so much. in therapy and just in my life, recognizing my patterns and seeing how that insecurity also translated to me choosing the wrong things in my life, relationships with the wrong people, because I was so desperate for the connection that I was willing to shove that square peg in that round hole a thousand times over.

You know, it was like, it's just, it's not going to work. And it's like, for us to really be. As I'm going to use the term productive, but I don't mean in like a very partially in the actual tactical sense of productivity, but also to be, you know, productive members of society to show up fully, like, we have to find the we have to unearth those parts of ourselves that maybe the external forces are sort of telling us to shield, um, and, and to prevent exposure because getting to a place where I felt comfortable enough to talk about myself and my story.

And there's still moments. Like I, I definitely feel like when I talk about my ex, I don't like to say ex wife, like things where I'm like, I'm trying to make sure that I'm saying what feels right to me. Even if like there's terminology that might make it easier for other people, you know, you have to be able to share things in a way that still feels comfortable to you, um, and aligned to you, but.

There's this sense of if we could have more collective safety, um, we would be able to reach a much greater potential as a society. And, um, there's, A guest that I had on previously, who I'd love to connect you with, his name's Dr. Mark Williams. He does, um, he's Australian, he's a neuroscientist. Um, he has a book called The Connected Species, basically speaking to the fact that as humans, we are a social species, we need each other to collaborate, to connect, to actually live effectively as humanity.

And so, um, really bringing it back to the root of humanity. And one of the things he works a lot with schools actually, um, and with the younger, um, with, with programs with younger, uh, children and adults and something that they've done. Um, and I, I don't have all the details in my head right now, but I'm saying it.

So I remembered to give you this information, um, is they work with a program where they've like, done some research around when kids come into school and they put their phones in these like lockbox things and that they've seen like really significant results in like the research about like how people are connecting and how they're focusing more.

And, you know, so there is, I feel at this point, a lot of combined forces from different areas of the world, different coming from different origins, you know, why you got to where you are. But even in this place as myself being like, Oh, I started this show as a way to connect with people because I was really, you know, questioning who I was.

And now I've learned about all of these people and to have the gift, uh, to be given the gift that, you know, some of those connections can then connect with each other The most gratifying, fulfilling feeling that I could possibly have. So as you're building this out with younger people and helping adults understand how they can enable that, it just feels like there's so much potential for this to grow.

And, um, you know, just however, I can continue to support that and be part of it. I feel very compelled to. I'm so impressed with. just the desire that you have and the initiative behind what you're building with Teen Reconnect. It's just, I know I said at the beginning of the conversation, but I wish that this was something that was available when I was younger.

And given that it was not, I really want people to know about it now.

[01:06:48] Emer O'Donnell: Well, thank you so much. I, and you know, and I do, it is a, it is a, it's a labor and love sometimes because I, I can honestly tell you. Back in 2016, when I finished at Henley and did the masters, nobody could figure out what I was talking about.

Yeah. Because the mental health tsunami happened here, but it just seems so obvious to me. And uh, so it's been, it's been a journey and actually it's been a journey where I've had to be really strong in my own conviction in a way that you had to be strong in your conviction. And, and sometimes we have to do that.

Because, you know, we are here and I absolutely believe it. We all have gifts. We all have talents. We get so lost in a story that doesn't serve us, as I mentioned earlier, that actually we don't allow them permission. And we have, you know, we've good and bad in all of this, but most of us, what we're frightened of is our ability to shine because it puts us in the spotlight.

And some of us just do not want that because the vulnerability it creates is enormous because you can be shot down. So, Whereas if you hang around in the shadows, at least you're kind of half safe, you know? And yeah, and so, you know, I, I want more and more people to shine because we need a world that's, that, that enables that to happen.

And, and, and if we want to create a better world, we have to have a more connected one for sure. And, you know, we're.

[01:08:16] Nikki La Croce: Oh, sorry. I was just going to say, um, you had made a comment, um, leading into that, that, you know, you've, you've had to have a lot of conviction in that, you know, you've, you've been challenged at points in time.

Is there anything that sort of stands out or is it more just the fact that you were kind of on the, um, bleeding edge of like the mental health side of thing where it's like it's starting to creep in and you're, you're trying to tell people, this is where it's at. I know these things. I'm, I'm confident in this and just really having to stick to that.

Or was there more like definitive moments where you feel like that came through?

[01:08:48] Emer O'Donnell: I think, I think for me, a part of it was, is that creation of the Qt Pathfinder. And, and not everybody was getting it. They could not see what I was all about. And, and, and, and I just know that, and then COVID hit where, you know, some people that are, you should just dump it and we'll move on.

And I'm like, no, no, no, this isn't about me.

[01:09:07] Nikki La Croce: Now more than ever, it's needed.

[01:09:08] Emer O'Donnell: Exactly. Exactly. And, and, and I was, you know, I was, advise just, you know, you should give up. It's just one of those, those things. It's not going to thrive. It's not going to do well. And, but I just, I just had this inner voice, the little flute was going and I just knew I couldn't let it go.

And I guess it's partly because I have three children of my own and I know that they're going to inherit a world that's going to be challenging. And I want them to have as many tools in their toolkit to be able to be the little shining diamonds they are. And, uh, and if they're in a group of others that are feeling the same way, then that's a really powerful thing, because if we lose that sense of community, if we lose that sense of connection, the more and more technology is going to be controlled by certain elements within our society, they'll choose the stories we're going to hear.

And if we don't know how to manage how we react to those stories. And rather than just being triggered by them all the time, if we cannot listen to that inner voice about what it is that we're here to create, then actually we're just going to be wandering around like zombies. Um, so for me, and that might sound a bit, you know, apocalyptic.

It's not.

[01:10:22] Nikki La Croce: I think it's very real.

[01:10:23] Emer O'Donnell: We, we are triggered all the time and we only have to see, you know, what's going on in the world at the moment to know that. We know that the news we get fed is very selective. It could be, you know, there's, there's wars going on in Africa that we hardly hear about. Um, so we have to be able to.

find the truth. We have to be able to get through our own, it's very difficult for us to be objective as humans because we have so many thinking errors and biases and all the rest of it. We have to understand how that stuff works because if we're not living in truth, We're just in a state of illusion, and actually that's no way to live.

[01:11:01] Nikki La Croce: Wow, I love that. I love that so much. Um, I think that's an incredible way to kind of round out the episode. I would absolutely love to chat more about all of this, Imre. I mean, it's incredible to see how you view, um, what's possible. And to be able to witness the desire to expand that is, is quite just inspiring and incredible.

And I think that when it comes to looking at the future of the world and, and what you want to, you know, there are some things we want to preserve. Um, and there are other things that we really need to evolve. And. What I, you know, have gleaned from this conversation and the work that you're doing is really, it's about understanding yourself well enough to be able to know where you draw those lines and how you connect You say this in your messaging, it's like, how do you connect the dots?

And I just, I really could not be more thankful that you took the time to chat with me today. So, so thank you for being here.

[01:12:06] Emer O'Donnell: Thank you so much for having me. And I, I'm very grateful you, you shared some of your story with me too, because that was very rich and, um, yeah, and beautiful to share. Thank

[01:12:17] Nikki La Croce: you. I, I appreciate that you asked the question.

I, um, occasionally do guest spots on other shows and it's nice to, um, be able to have the opportunity to express some of those things in my own show when it comes back around. So listeners, if you enjoyed what you heard here today, um, you can learn more at teenreconnect. com and you can also, um, Emer, where can they find your book?

[01:12:38] Emer O'Donnell: Okay. So it's called Understanding Teen Stress and Anxiety. A Parent's Guide to Building Love and Connection. And it's available on Amazon. com or Amazon. co. uk or Amazon wherever you are in the world.

[01:12:52] Nikki La Croce: Perfect. I will put links in the show notes. Thanks a million. And is there anything else you'd like to leave listeners with before we part here?

[01:12:59] Emer O'Donnell: I'll just repeat that quote that my four year old son said to me. It's all about love, mom. You just have to fill your heart with love. I

[01:13:05] Nikki La Croce: love that. Thank you so much, Emer and gang. That's all for this episode. We'll catch you on the flip side. Gang, thanks so much for joining me for this week's episode. I just appreciate your support and it means so much to me that you tune in week after week.

The best thing that you can do to help spread the word about the podcast is if this episode resonated with you, go ahead and share it with somebody else, wherever you listen to your podcasts, or you can go ahead and subscribe to my YouTube channel and share it from there. I also really appreciate it if you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts, because that really helps give people a better understanding of what the show's about and what you appreciate about the conversations that we're having.