[00:00:00] Nikki La Croce: So this is a really special episode I get to sit here and talk to. My oldest friend, one of the people that I care so incredibly much about and has been there through really almost all of the stages of my life. Erin Renner Steg, but in my world, forever known as Renner. Welcome to Can I Just Say?

[00:00:24] Erin Renner Steg: I'm so excited to be a part of this.

[00:00:26] Erin Renner Steg: I listen, I've watched you through all these stages, I'm so excited to be here.

[00:00:31] Nikki La Croce: It's Really cool that when I asked you if you wanted to do this, you were like, yeah I also want to see what goes into it. And for those of you who, who have seen the show in video format, you know that I really care deeply about production value.

[00:00:48] Nikki La Croce: This is something that I don't have the camera available for it but I think the conversation is gonna stand really strong on its own because I'm talking to somebody who knows more about me than probably anybody else. We were talking a little bit earlier about what it was like growing up together and how life has changed over the years in many ways, that we are very different people with very different lives, but one of the most incredible things about our friendship.

[00:01:23] Nikki La Croce: Is that we are truly people who, if we haven't spoken in a while, if we haven't seen each other in a long time, we can drop right back into feeling it. insanely strong sense of connection pretty quickly. And thank you for coming out to

[00:01:42] Erin Renner Steg: Vancouver. I mean, uh, you're my only friend that lives on the West Coast.

[00:01:48] Erin Renner Steg: So it's, and I don't get to see you that often. Like usually I'm waiting for you to be like, I'm coming home for Christmas, or I'm going to be here. And it's a quick like drop in and you try to get as much conversation as possible in like an hour or two. But it's really nice to be able to come out and just spend time and like talk to you and really get to know Nicole and kind of be a part of this new life that you've created that I've like, I hear bits and pieces about, but that I haven't really gotten to see.

[00:02:13] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, that's a really good point. This is the first time you're really getting to experience this part of my new life. You'd come and visited when I was in Seattle. And my life is drastically different than it was then. I loved Seattle and I had a lot of great experiences there and I really enjoyed our time when you visited there, but there's so much more richness to my life now and it's nice to be able to share that with you.

[00:02:36] Nikki La Croce: And know, I think that there's It's been such an immense shift in the way that I'm living my life, not just in terms of location, having grown up on the East Coast in the States, but to really have cultivated a sense of home here as well. Because growing up together, I don't know if there was ever a time where I was like, I'm staying in Pennsylvania.

[00:02:58] Nikki La Croce: Like there was always a, I got to get out of here. Where am I going? And I didn't really know where that was going to be. So it does mean a lot when people make the effort to come out. And I think especially because you said earlier, or yesterday maybe, that it wasn't just that we were friends, it's that our families were friends.

[00:03:15] Nikki La Croce: And so when I think back on our relationship, how we've grown up together, and where we are now, there's been a lot of time where we didn't necessarily see each other, but I've never once felt like we didn't have a connection. Do you feel like There was ever a point because we have such significantly different lives that and for context for any listeners Erin is a teacher and She lives in Maryland.

[00:03:48] Nikki La Croce: I've never lived in Maryland. My sister does and you have two young children and I am not a teacher school gives me tremendous amount of anxiety and Obviously, I don't have children. So I Was there ever a time where you felt like, because we had different lives, you thought maybe we wouldn't have the connection that we have?

[00:04:10] Erin Renner Steg: No, because I think, uh, and this is something my husband and I talk about all the time, is that like, there's There's your life as a family and there's like life with kids and with, you know, spending time with other families, with kids and doing all of that. But then there's also when you make time to like for yourself, you know, I always say that like talking to you or like even coming out here when I came out to Seattle, it's just like good for the soul because you just need that time to like connect with somebody where you're not talking about your kids.

[00:04:40] Erin Renner Steg: You're not, you know, You know, talking about the day to day things that you do all the time. It's kind of like you really get to experience somebody else's life, um, that you care deeply for and that you also, um, kind of get to talk more about things that you don't necessarily, you know, want to talk about.

[00:05:00] Erin Renner Steg: feel comfortable talking to other people about and that I always, I've said this to you before, like I am much better talking to people like in person, like one on one situations. It's, you know, when you call somebody, you have a limited amount of time. Yeah. You kind of know

[00:05:14] Nikki La Croce: there's an end. What are

[00:05:15] Erin Renner Steg: the main things we need to talk about to like catch each other up?

[00:05:20] Erin Renner Steg: But then it's also like, Yeah, I want to know what you're doing, but like we've talked about before, like when you really have a connection with somebody or you're really good friends with somebody, you want, you want to grow, like, you want to learn from that person. So it's more than just like, Hey, what are you up to these days?

[00:05:34] Erin Renner Steg: Because I do care about that. But I also know that like talking to you is going to, in some way, make me feel better, but also make me think like, Oh, it's really interesting. Maybe that's something I should explore, like, or think about, um, or something I can have a conversation with other people about that I never thought about.

[00:05:54] Erin Renner Steg: There's so much that I think both of us like get out of this relationship while we reminisce a lot. It also, because we've been in those situations together and we've experienced so much together in our, in our childhood and growing up, like, I think. we are able to talk about and remind each other how much we've grown since we were there, which is a really good point, which is hard.

[00:06:18] Erin Renner Steg: There's not a lot of people you can do that with.

[00:06:20] Nikki La Croce: You're right. You're

[00:06:20] Erin Renner Steg: really usually just relying on Like what I remember from when I was a kid and you're telling someone about it. But like we've talked about since I've been here, like there's so many experiences where I'm like, I remember that. Like I remember when you were feeling that way.

[00:06:34] Erin Renner Steg: Or I remember when this happened. Gosh, that makes so much

[00:06:37] Nikki La Croce: sense. Right. And then there's a lot of the, why am I like this? And you're like, here's what I witnessed is why you're like this. Or you've always been like this. It's interesting to see how you've evolved since then. Yes. When I think about, Us growing up together and how In a lot of ways, I think we're, we are who we are and who we've always been.

[00:07:00] Nikki La Croce: And you also raise a really interesting point about the fact that you're really the person that has seen the kind of end to end evolution of who I am now, which means, you know, a lot of things that not only do other people not know, but things that, I probably wouldn't even consider telling people, because maybe it doesn't feel relevant or you're just not, as you said, reminded of it.

[00:07:29] Nikki La Croce: So, you're like, oh, I guess that is information about me that I should consider or maybe it would help my wife to know that I'm like this. And one of the things that I really appreciate about you visiting too is that Nicole never having met my mom. You are somebody who has known my mom from the age of five and can share more about experiences with her, with me growing up, and give some context that she would never otherwise have because I obviously share stories about my mom through the lens of my experience and I think it's really valuable to have somebody who's outside of the family but was close with my family be able to offer more of that.

[00:08:12] Nikki La Croce: Insight into that part of why I am the way that I am also. And also just stories about my mom that maybe I wouldn't think of. Part of what I think is exciting about being able to have this conversation with you is that it's an opportunity for listeners to get to maybe know me a little bit better than they would because they're, Nicole knows who I am now very well.

[00:08:35] Nikki La Croce: There was a lot before we met. And I'm curious if there's maybe a memory or, or moments in our lives that come to mind that feel like they were significant in our relationship. Is there anything that like, if somebody says my name, somebody's like, Nikki, you're like, Oh, this is

[00:08:57] Erin Renner Steg: the thing that I think of. I mean, I always go back to like our experiences playing sports together because I, that's, that's what we do.

[00:09:03] Erin Renner Steg: Where we spent so much time together, um, and our families were so melded together during that time. Um, and we talked about this a little bit when I first got here. It's just like, I always think about like your intensity, like how your intensity, like you've always been an intense person. Um, Like emotionally, like, Mostly emotionally.

[00:09:27] Erin Renner Steg: Mostly emotionally. My first thought, like when I think about like us playing sports is like, I also think because we were public school kids on like when I think of our most of our basketball time together was like CYO. You know, when we were like late elementary into middle school.

[00:09:50] Nikki La Croce: So fifth through eighth grade.

[00:09:51] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:09:52] Erin Renner Steg: Um. We is, I feel like we had that bond because we were already friends, but it was also like, we weren't, we weren't going to the Catholic school, like everybody else. So like, we were friends with everybody, but. It was a different kind of connection. I, like, I always felt like we were kind of like, we were still a little separate.

[00:10:12] Erin Renner Steg: And not that we were treated that way. Like, I don't ever remember feeling treated like an outcast or anything. I didn't feel that way. I never, that, that's not how I would describe it. Um, but there was just like a different bond in that, like, I feel like we had such a, a different understanding of each other.

[00:10:29] Erin Renner Steg: Um, And when I think specifically about sports and like the frustrations that we've had over the years with like, I mean, probably us being able to like manage our emotions. Well, it's like, especially like both of us struggled with that in different ways. Um, like I just, you know, I know like probably coaching me when I was younger was a really difficult task.

[00:10:52] Erin Renner Steg: Um, because I was, um, I was quick to anger and get very frustrated, um, same as were you, and I think it came out for both of us in, in similar but different ways sometimes, but I always felt like in those moments, I think that's where I remember, like, feeling like. You know, there's always that feeling of being embarrassed.

[00:11:12] Erin Renner Steg: Like, Oh my God, I can't believe I just did that. Or like, I don't know how to stop myself from feeling this way. Like, how do I calm myself down? But it was kind of like we had each other to be like, it's going to be all right. Like, don't worry about it. Like I got your back.

[00:11:25] Nikki La Croce: Well, it's co regulation, which is actually interesting if you think about it now, because As an educator and the way that you've spoken about teaching your children about their emotions, I mean, this is one of those things where you look at us as a generation of cycle breakers being millennials and you learn a lot more about it.

[00:11:41] Nikki La Croce: Well, when we are struggling to regulate how we feel about something, it helps when somebody is there to navigate the experience with you. Yeah. Which is terminology I never would have used or understood. back then at all. Yeah. To reflect on it in this moment with you right now, I can totally see that and something that you said that I think really is interesting too is the time that we spent playing CYO Basketball together because I agree with you.

[00:12:04] Nikki La Croce: I think if I had to pinpoint this is where my brain goes when I think of you instantly, it is that time in our lives. And it's because of that unity and what I feel like you're saying too, is that because we were separate in most of our day to day from the people we were playing sports with, we had a sense of belonging with each other that didn't necessarily, um, come as part of the package with the rest of the team and it wasn't was an explicit exclusion.

[00:12:40] Nikki La Croce: It wasn't like that, but it was just that our bond was stronger because we were also going through day to day in school together. So we were friends outside of the sporting side of it, where when you're in a different school and you're then just playing sports with people, the context of your relationship is different.

[00:12:57] Nikki La Croce: The events that you're going to together, not all the other parts of your life, because we also, as we talked about, we did Girl Scouts together, outside of basketball, we played softball together, we would be at the swim club during the summer together, you know, there were all these elements of our lives where we meet.

[00:13:16] Nikki La Croce: We're connecting that wasn't purely driven by the activity that we had to do and this is something that I think is really interesting to touch on as well because we've been talking to you about what Nicole and I are working on and really wanting to help people make friends and So many people say when you try to make friends as an adult, like how do I do it?

[00:13:37] Nikki La Croce: What do I do and people will say well go join a club go find an activity that you both like to do or that you Like to do and then other people like to do it and it's like if all you and I had was the activity that we did together and we didn't have the friendship that Waded through all that and you have all these other connective experiences We probably wouldn't be as close because if I look back at it and I go Oh the friends that I made through sports that were primarily through sports or and or they were also maybe in my classes But we didn't stay in touch afterwards once that common interest fades away What's left?

[00:14:13] Nikki La Croce: And I feel like That's a big part of why I've never felt like there was a lapse in our connection because there was so much foundation to our friendship versus many of the others where it was like, you're in my class, you're on my team, you're this, you're that, whereas ours was like, you're integrated into my life.

[00:14:29] Nikki La Croce: You are a feature of my life. When you think about your relationships that you have now, Do you find that you are looking for people that like are more integrated into your life? Um, you know, you have kids and things like that now too. So, I imagine you probably have friends at work. Um, but as a parent, do you see that as something that, you really want to help your children with like in terms of opening them up to more social situations and and creating kind of those familial and friendship bonds that we had growing up?

[00:15:09] Erin Renner Steg: I think it's um, I think at this stage it's a little harder because my kids are so young that there's not like a whole lot of like things like sports and things that we're like going to regularly where you're getting to spend enough time with groups of people. Yeah. Um, You know, when you're four years old, you're like, Oh, there's a new friend.

[00:15:33] Erin Renner Steg: I'll play with this friend. And it's like, not necessarily building a, like a real connection with them. It's more about just like a social phonics, you know, someone to play with kind of thing. Um, I think as like parents, I think at this stage, a lot of times it's kind of about, like, convenience, and I don't mean that, like, you know, I'm only friends with people because it's convenient for me, but I think that's how you meet people, um,

[00:15:59] Nikki La Croce: proximity,

[00:15:59] Erin Renner Steg: yeah, like proximity, like, just when you're with kids, you're doing some of the same things.

[00:16:05] Erin Renner Steg: So you see the same people. Um, and then you kind of start it. That's how you kind of initiate the friendship, in a sense, where it's really about the kids, but then you start talking more and more, and then you get to know people more and more, um, and it becomes, oftentimes in those situations, I feel like the people that we've met, like, with kids or through our kids, like, that we've become close with, Um, you learn a lot from, which is what I've talked to you about.

[00:16:30] Erin Renner Steg: Like, what do you value in a relationship or a friendship is like that you want to grow. You want to learn something from people. Um, and you know, sometimes it's like, well, I don't necessarily agree with what, how other people might be talking about either raising kids or whatever other topic it is. But.

[00:16:50] Erin Renner Steg: I'm listening to it and I'm still like, still kind of like bouncing ideas. Like it's kind of like an open mindedness

[00:16:57] Nikki La Croce: too. Yeah.

[00:16:58] Erin Renner Steg: Um, and I think that's what I value too, in meeting new people is like, are you open to having some of these conversations? Like if I share something with you, Are you really listening to that?

[00:17:09] Erin Renner Steg: And do you have any suggestions, like advice, and, you know, what are some, what are some things that you've been doing to try to solve this particular problem? So I do feel like a lot of it does revolve around like, kids, like, how are you managing your children? How are you dealing with this problem with a kid?

[00:17:27] Erin Renner Steg: It's

[00:17:28] Nikki La Croce: interesting how, how, Because I obviously like I don't have kids, but I feel like I would be a hundred percent in that mindset because how you're doing that will tell me a bit about you and I also feel like I would start to have a lot of questions about why that way. What, what is it that makes you think that?

[00:17:47] Nikki La Croce: Well, and

[00:17:48] Erin Renner Steg: the more that you get to know people, though, you realize, like, you learn about them and, like, some things about their life. And you're like, well, this tracks, like, this makes sense to me. And it's not about being right or wrong. Like, I, I think that's one of the hardest things to learn as a parent is that, like, there's no right way to do something.

[00:18:06] Erin Renner Steg: You. Somebody gives you advice and you're like, well, that must be what everybody's doing. And then you are like, well, that's not working for me. So is something wrong? And at some point you realize this is just going to be different. Like, um, I need to just be okay with making my decisions and feeling okay about it.

[00:18:24] Erin Renner Steg: And if it doesn't work, I'm going to try something else. Doesn't mean that that doesn't work for somebody else's. Kids or

[00:18:30] Nikki La Croce: whatever. So I'm going to flip this for a second cause I really, this is something where I think about how long we've known each other and how, you know, when you're somebody who's witnessing the people closest to you in your life become parents with my sister, you, other friends that I have, there's been something really incredible that I've seen.

[00:18:52] Nikki La Croce: And again, I reference our generation because I think this is a bit unique given all the information that's out there now about mental health and child development and things like that. It's been really fascinating to watch. Your evolution as you become a parent, because you and I did all the stupid stuff, , you know, like we did it.

[00:19:11] Nikki La Croce: We did it together. We were witness to it, we were advising against it, we were doing it anyway. You know, we were getting in trouble with each other's parents for things that we were doing together, uh, in addition to our own, you know, so. I feel like something that's been really cool, I mean, because you're a teacher, I've always, you know, had an understanding of how, to some extent, how you think about, you know, being around kids and, and, and whatnot, but I feel like it's been really awesome, and I've said this to you in the last couple of days, to hear how you are witnessing your own evolution.

[00:19:44] Nikki La Croce: Since being a parent, because having to teach your kids about emotions and nervous system regulation, things that you can't really articulate in such an intellectual capacity to your children, you have to figure out, first of all, what is it, like you said, that you want to teach, how you want to teach it, etc.

[00:20:04] Nikki La Croce: But also, you've said some things to me where it's like, I guess I have to, Consider how I'm doing this now for me, because if I want to, if I want to help encourage my child to express themselves or feel these things or understand them, that requires me. to now have a handle on what I do, how I express myself.

[00:20:25] Nikki La Croce: So what has it been like for you? And maybe it doesn't even have to solely be around having kids, but what do you feel has been a significant point of personal growth for you in terms of emotional growth in, in the last several years? Because we're in our mid late thirties now, and I feel like If I look back on my track record emotionally, it took getting into my 30s to really have a sense of how I wanted to handle

[00:20:56] Erin Renner Steg: it, or maybe how I should handle it.

[00:20:58] Erin Renner Steg: My biggest area of growth has definitely been perfectionism. Like, I have been historically An anxious person when it comes to doing things the right way has to be done the right way. It was in every part of my life, whether it was sports, if I couldn't do it like perfectly, I would get very frustrated with myself, which would then just kind of have the snowball effect of like impacting other people.

[00:21:23] Erin Renner Steg: Um, if in school, if I didn't get the grades that I, that I wanted, that was like another trigger for me. Um, And I think also feeling like, well, this is how life is supposed to go. I need to check these boxes. And if I don't do it in this way, then like, I'm a failure. And my fear of failure, especially when I was younger, was so such a big part of my life and created so much anxiety for me.

[00:21:53] Erin Renner Steg: Um, that oftentimes I think people, and I learned, I learned this more, I guess, in college when, when people would kind of call me out on it and like, kind of look at me. Like friends. Yeah. And, and say, notice like things that they would kind of laugh about and. Be like, that's a little much . But I would be like, it's just the way I am.

[00:22:15] Erin Renner Steg: Like, and I would laugh about it too, but then realizing like how much that was impacting my quality of life because of Can you gimme an

[00:22:22] Nikki La Croce: example? '

[00:22:23] Erin Renner Steg: cause of the stress level. Um, so I remember I had this project, I took this winter session class and I had this project that I had to do. This was really a defining moment for me and I you'd create this poster.

[00:22:37] Erin Renner Steg: I forget what it's about. Some concept map about Mm-Hmm. , some kind of. Education, philosophy, I don't know. Um, and I smudged, I made a smudge on this poster, which, again, in college I really, this was like the first poster project I ever had to do, that wasn't really a thing, um, so I made this smudge and the reaction that I had was way over dramatic, like I was freaking out and I thought I have to redo this entire project.

[00:23:08] Erin Renner Steg: I spent so much time on this. I don't have time to redo this because it's due tomorrow. And just like, I was getting worked up and worked up and worked up. And the friends that I was around at the time, like one of my friends said to me, like, It's not that big of a deal. You really can't even see it. I don't think you're going to lose points for a smudge.

[00:23:26] Erin Renner Steg: I don't think it's about like how pretty your poster is. I think it's about the content in it. Um, and I didn't understand it and I didn't, I wasn't not receiving that in the moment. Um, but, I didn't have a choice. Like, so I went to class the next day feeling extremely anxious and like, all these people are going to look at my poster and be like, Oh, I can't, wouldn't, how awful was that?

[00:23:52] Erin Renner Steg: Which when I even talking about this now, it makes me like cringe because I'm like, gosh, I feel so bad for that person because it was such a traumatic, like traumatic experience for me, but it really didn't need to be. It did not need to be. I had built it up all in my head. Um, and nobody said anything to me about it.

[00:24:10] Erin Renner Steg: And I, at the time, the professor that I had was a really, really awesome guy. And he. kind of knew this about me because he was very observant and it wasn't a very large class. So he had, he had, um, observed some of my mannerisms and things in class. And I remember when I got the project back, he had made like a comment on the rubric sheet that the smudge really added to the poster.

[00:24:33] Erin Renner Steg: And that was kind of like a breaking point for me in, in a small sense, it didn't like transform me into like a totally different person, but it, it, Made me at least think about to be able to kind of like regulate myself. Like is this really worth Getting this upset about it's gonna bother you and that's okay But like is it really worth your entire body?

[00:24:55] Erin Renner Steg: Like you losing it and you treating people like this because you're upset and you're like freaking out about something That's really not that big of a deal

[00:25:03] Nikki La Croce: It's interesting because when you, when you talk about that and you were saying, you know, we both were kind of quick to anger, which is, is a really good way to describe it.

[00:25:11] Nikki La Croce: Quick to anger because of the

[00:25:12] Erin Renner Steg: anxiety, right? It wasn't because I was mad at you. It was because of my own anxiety where I was like, I didn't want to hear someone tell me that I was doing it wrong. So if you're going to continue to tell me, and especially in the manner that when you're coaching, especially back then, it was not a kind manner.

[00:25:31] Erin Renner Steg: And I'm not saying you always need to be like super kind to everybody, but it was a very direct, aggressive, aggressive manner sometimes, which is what it is. And it's not that I had, that I have a problem with that type of coaching, but for me personally, I really took that personally. Well, it's not as effective.

[00:25:50] Erin Renner Steg: And

[00:25:51] Nikki La Croce: I think the thing that it made me consider in terms of us both being a bit more reactive in that regard is that I really honestly hadn't thought about this until you said it, is, tell me if you agree with this or not, but I feel like we both can acknowledge that my reactivity manifested more as rage, and that type of intensity, and yours, you would cry.

[00:26:20] Nikki La Croce: And I feel like, I might cry, especially in academic situations, I feel like I was far more prone to that type of perfectionism. But, it's like, When I look at how we were raised, you know, I don't know that I felt my parents wanted us to do well. And we were always told, do the best you can. If the best you can get as a C, then the best you can get as a C, but you just need to try.

[00:26:50] Nikki La Croce: So I don't know that my, let's say perfectionist nature was necessarily a function of my parents putting pressure on me as much as it was, That internalized anxiety of, it says something about me personally if that smudge is on there. Exactly, exactly. We make it so much more about us, and we assign so much meaning to how people perceive us through the things that we do that are more superficial and less meaningful.

[00:27:25] Nikki La Croce: And in reality, there's a lot more that people are witness to. that is far more validating and positive and good. But when you are a generally anxious person, they could be saying all the good things to you all day long, and you're like, yeah, but remember that one time, and that one really seemingly small thing?

[00:27:43] Nikki La Croce: I'm worthless now.

[00:27:45] Erin Renner Steg: Yeah, and like you, that all goes to, like, you can't accept the compliments. You can't, it's like the five love languages, right? Like, words of affirmation is not going to work for me. It's just not. Like, and it never will. Well, it's funny. Like, it's not that I don't appreciate the words of affirmation, but I can't internalize that.

[00:28:05] Erin Renner Steg: And maybe it's because I don't know how to, and maybe that's something I need to figure out. But you wanted growth from these conversations. You're getting it here. I mean, I want to be able to, like, appreciate that about myself and it's at this stage of my life, I can identify what I feel my strengths are and I'm confident in a lot more things than I was back then.

[00:28:28] Erin Renner Steg: Um, but I don't need to hear that to feel validated. Right. I get that. Um, but I also think I'm evaluating myself in a healthier way. than I was back then. Um, that comes with growth also with opportunities to do that. Right. Like we've talked about the world is so, so different than it was the way that we approach teaching children, like helping them learn about their emotions, like didn't exist when we were younger.

[00:29:03] Erin Renner Steg: Um, so, um, We've figured this out on our own journeys. Um, and I, I think having children has, has accelerated my growth partly, maybe because I still have that anxiety of like, you don't want to screw your kid up. So I really want to make sure that like what I'm doing is going to allow my children have the best opportunities, um, and be able to really be as happy as possible.

[00:29:31] Erin Renner Steg: Like it's not, Realistic to say that you're just going to live the best happiest life and everything's going to be sunshine and rainbows, but I want them to feel comfortable being able to understand when situations are are not going in a positive way and how to deal with that as opposed to just pretending like it's not happening were.

[00:29:52] Erin Renner Steg: refusing to deal with your anxiety?

[00:29:55] Nikki La Croce: Well, I was gonna say like holding on to it and not, um, giving yourself space to work through it. And I mean, I do think that, you know, some of the things that we talked about earlier in terms of our own personal growth, I like the way that you said, I'm evaluating myself differently.

[00:30:10] Nikki La Croce: I feel like that's a really good nugget of knowledge and, and well put because I was very hypercritical of myself growing up. Venture to say I still can be. And at the same time, I, I do think because of the information that we have and, and our choices to consume information to better understand who we are, why we're this way, how we react, how we respond, etc.

[00:30:39] Nikki La Croce: It's like, When you are intentional about doing that type of work, then you can have a more objective view of who you are and start to look at it and say, Okay, I can still love myself, despite the fact that I do this thing. And if I really don't like that thing that I do, or the way that I am in certain regards, It is within my power to adapt, and I think that's probably also part of what has been really consistent for both of us in our friendship and in our individual and shared growth, is that I don't know that we've ever had the type of situation in our friendship where one of us felt like The other one wasn't trying to evolve.

[00:31:25] Nikki La Croce: And, and it's super frustrating when you feel like life's moving and, and we have to be willing to, like I said, adapt to the circumstances. And when you want to be able to maintain meaningful relationships with people, If somebody's really static, and they're not willing to do the work, or they just want to complain and not change, and justify their unhappiness by, you know, blaming the world and the circumstances surrounding them, it's really hard to maintain a supportive friendship, because then you just feel like, You're lacking accountability for your own life, and I can be a sounding board, but ultimately, nothing's gonna change until you change it.

[00:32:08] Nikki La Croce: And one of the biggest things, you know, I, I, for anybody who's listening that has listened to other episodes where I've spoken about my friend Paula saying to me, When I was about to leave my last, uh, relationship was, you're asking for the bare minimum, you're not even getting that. That was an extremely transformative moment.

[00:32:27] Nikki La Croce: The other transformative moment in getting me out of that situation because there were a lot of people offering a lot of feedback over the years and I just wasn't ready to hear it. And I have to be accountable to the fact that I was a little bit allowing myself to be a victim of circumstance. You know, obviously there's psychological abuse and that's something that you have to understand and acknowledge but there is accountability in the willingness to stay.

[00:32:47] Nikki La Croce: And Not executing on leaving and when you and I had a real heart to heart about I wasn't happy I wasn't healthy like I wasn't okay emotionally and it was wearing on me in a lot of ways I think a real testament to our friendship was the moment that you said to me. I wanted to say this I didn't know how to say it and I was really worried that if I did it might cost us our friendship and You're like, but I'm so worried about you right now that I have to take that chance And I I don't know that I can actually put words to the feeling that I get about how loved that makes me feel.

[00:33:24] Nikki La Croce: Because our relationship is so important to me. It's not just about longevity. There's so much as we're saying that goes into it. But to have a friend who cares so deeply about you, who is family to you say, I will risk our friendship because I can't bear to see you so unhappy and so out of alignment with yourself that I will, I will say what needs to be said.

[00:33:45] Nikki La Croce: And if If that means that this isn't there anymore, like you need to take care of you. But like, it would be selfish of me as a friend to not tell you this. Like that was so powerful for me and really there's really nobody else that could have said it. And I think really. allowed me to hear it because you've been there through it all and you weren't a friend who met me when I was in the midst of that relationship.

[00:34:11] Nikki La Croce: You were somebody who knew me before, so you knew who I was and how I was. You watched me through my desperation stages as we talked through. You really, I think, in doing that, in being willing to to risk, you know, my response being, um, you know, basically cutting off our friendship, if that were the case.

[00:34:31] Nikki La Croce: Like, to me, that's such an extreme act of love and care for me. Was it hard for you? Did you have, like, a genuine concern that I would be, like, I don't want to hear it. We're done here.

[00:34:43] Erin Renner Steg: Yes. I don't, I don't know that I, I I truly believed that it was gonna like, destroy our friendship or anything. I, I thought to myself, this might be the moment we talked about this.

[00:34:56] Erin Renner Steg: We've never had like a falling out or like a period of time where we just like, didn't talk. Um, I thought this might be the time, like this might be the time where like she's, we're gonna, she's gonna say, I need some space to which I would give you and we could come back and have this conversation. Um, I also think at that stage of my life and you know, I, I've said this to you before, I also credit my husband for helping me to grow significantly.

[00:35:24] Erin Renner Steg: Um, um, in my awareness of like some of the, some of my anxiety and some of my mannerisms and things, um, that I need to work on. And one of them, one of them that has always been something for me is I've, I've always had a hard time, not so much anymore, but I, I had a hard time being direct with people, telling people things.

[00:35:47] Erin Renner Steg: I knew they didn't want to hear because Again, there's that like anxiety about like, I want to say this and then them think differently of me. Um, I don't want to lose something because of this, but my husband is extra direct to the point that it's like, and not in like a negative way, but he will just like, like word vomit things to people.

[00:36:13] Erin Renner Steg: He loves sharing about himself. He's very confident. I think he taught me that like, Like, you have to be able to express when something's not okay to somebody. And if that person doesn't care, then they don't care. But if you feel that strongly about something that, like, for somebody that you really care about, then how can you not say something?

[00:36:39] Erin Renner Steg: So part of that was a conversation with him. Like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And he's like, you need to talk to her. And I said, I know I can talk to her, but like, I just, it's different because it, because I also knew all of. Like, I just knew so much of it. Cause like you said, I knew you before and I knew all of the other pieces that contributed to it.

[00:36:59] Erin Renner Steg: I knew what you'd been hearing from other people. I knew how it was impacting your family. I knew all of these things. And I thought I have always wanted to be the person that's there for you in these times. But that was kind of a realization for me that like, sometimes that's going to require you to be that person.

[00:37:18] Erin Renner Steg: You have to be that person. Um, so that was probably one of the first times that I felt like I kind of really stepped out of my comfort zone because I cared that much. And I kind of learned that like, if you want what's best, if I want what's, if I truly want what's best for Nikki, I need to say something about this.

[00:37:38] Erin Renner Steg: And it's not about. You know, here's what I think you need to do. It's, I need to tell you, this is, I believe is happening. You tell me if you want to do something about it, I'm here for it. We'll figure it out. Like I, we can, we can kind of like charter, like go through these unchartered waters together. Um, but I was like, I'm just going to drop this bomb

[00:38:00] Nikki La Croce: and see what happens.

[00:38:01] Nikki La Croce: I think it was a really emotionally responsible thing to do too. I really appreciate. Your willingness to take that chance because of your care for me I think it's a a courageous thing to do because I agree with you I think when you feel like you could lose somebody that you care about so deeply when we hold back that's actually With the intention of preserving what we need rather than expressing Honestly the thing that they need because it could risk that thing that we care about and I think Austin did a really important thing in saying, if it's that important, then you need, you need to express it.

[00:38:44] Nikki La Croce: I would say there really probably aren't many things that I can think of that you and I don't talk about or wouldn't be open to talking. I mean,

[00:38:51] Erin Renner Steg: I think that was probably the only time that I felt as if like, I don't know if I should say this because I knew how sensitive it was. I also knew that this was essentially going to blow up your life.

[00:39:04] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Like I

[00:39:05] Erin Renner Steg: knew that this was going to be a major, and I knew that you already kind of knew it. I knew that. I knew that you, I think that you just didn't want to admit it. I knew that saying this was going to have a ginormous impact on, on your life and everything in your life, which is why it wasn't just a simple like, Oh, you're dating somebody.

[00:39:27] Erin Renner Steg: Maybe you shouldn't date that person. It was like, this is, this is really gonna.

[00:39:32] Nikki La Croce: shift

[00:39:32] Erin Renner Steg: your entire life.

[00:39:34] Nikki La Croce: I also needed to be ready to receive it.

[00:39:37] Erin Renner Steg: I think that's part of it too, though, is that we had been having some conversations and some things like I had kind of like thrown some things out there and like your, your response gradually got to be like, yeah, like it was less of a, yeah, but, and it became more of like a, I need to try and do this, I need to try and do this, and then I, like, at that point, I think I felt a little bit more comfortable about, see how

[00:40:02] Nikki La Croce: this goes.

[00:40:03] Nikki La Croce: I think at one point you flat out asked me if I was happy. I did. It is really hard to be resistant to feedback when somebody asks you a very simple question like, are you happy? And you can't say no. With confidence, yes. Because if it's not a yes, it's a no. That's, that question specifically. If it is not a yes, it's a no.

[00:40:29] Nikki La Croce: It is a very challenging moment because you are really faced with yourself when you say no. And then it becomes, well, what would make me happy? Because if this never will make me happy, Why am I here? And I feel like there was this moment you had said something and it was really impactful for me in terms of like, Is this the life that you want?

[00:40:59] Erin Renner Steg: Well, you kept changing the life that you wanted. You would tell me one thing about like, Oh, this is so great. I'm moving out to the West coast. I'm so excited for you. And then it was like, this life's going to be great. And then when you're telling me about what you're doing, I'm like, this is not the life that you talked about.

[00:41:12] Erin Renner Steg: And then it would be like, well, now I want to do this. Well, now I'm going to do this. And it was, you were constantly on that journey trying to figure out what it was that was going to make you happy. It was constant. It was constantly different when I would talk to you and I'd be like, wow, she's experiencing so many things.

[00:41:25] Erin Renner Steg: Oh, I guess now she's doing this. I guess now she's doing this. And then after a while, as an outsider, you're like, nothing's sticking.

[00:41:33] Nikki La Croce: No, no. Yeah. And nothing could stick because I think the thing is, is that when you're extremely unsettled in, not in the physical side of it, in terms of the tangible external things that you're doing.

[00:41:45] Nikki La Croce: When you are so unsettled internally at all times, you're looking for a silver bullet. Not this. Okay. How about that? Not this. How about that? And I also, as you witnessed and a lot of people witnessed, I self abandoned to such a tremendous degree. And the thing that you and my sister and my dad all were like, big fat fucking no, was I do not want children.

[00:42:14] Nikki La Croce: I think kids are great. They're not for me. You've

[00:42:16] Erin Renner Steg: been

[00:42:17] Nikki La Croce: very clear on that for a

[00:42:19] Erin Renner Steg: long time. Yeah.

[00:42:20] Nikki La Croce: It gives me such an ick about myself. This is, I've said this in therapy where I was like, I abandoned myself a ton in the relationship. I did fewer things socially. I did, I constantly tried to accommodate my ex and all of these things and tried to like, you know, Shrink, as my friend Jamie said to me, just shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink my life to accommodate her life, which was garbage.

[00:42:41] Nikki La Croce: And then also when it came down to, well, I want to have a child or I'm not going to be with you. My answer should have been like, okay, bye. For all of the reasons besides that, plus that. Okay. And. The fact that I said, okay, let's try to adopt, was like the most supremely disappointing feeling that I could have in myself.

[00:43:06] Nikki La Croce: I was like, I can't imagine why, like how insecure and, oh my god, these barking dogs, I'm sorry, hold on a second. I, I think that when I was in this place of, Oh, yeah, if it's I lose you or, or we try to adopt a child, which by the way with all of the issues that you have, I don't think is gonna happen, but, so even the fact that I would say yes, knowing full well that it was a long shot anyway, I'd be supporting everything.

[00:43:33] Nikki La Croce: I'm disappointed and I'm a little disgusted with myself for being so insecure that I would say yes. Say yes to that. And I remember telling my sister and being offended that she didn't seem more supportive. And then when my dad and I talked after we lost my mom, he was like, Nikki, we never would've let that happen.

[00:43:47] Nikki La Croce: That's absurd. Like, no, nobody was gonna let that happen. And it's like people would say to me, you were so in it. So you couldn't see it. You were so in it. And I'm like, I hate that. That's a stupid thing to say to me, because obviously all of these things were happening and I was witness to it. I was, I was, it was obvious.

[00:44:03] Nikki La Croce: It was obvious. And it's like, I think that's where the self abandonment and then like my actual lack of confidence in myself was like, I also don't want people to be right. I don't want you to be right because then that says something about me. That's a smudge on my poster.

[00:44:18] Erin Renner Steg: Exactly. That's a great, great analogy.

[00:44:22] Nikki La Croce: I like to loop it back around. And, and I think that, you know, I really appreciate that you, you did that. And I appreciate that you were so understanding. reasonable in being supportive of me as I was getting to that place too, because I imagine as friends, it's very difficult. I mean, I imagine, I know I've done this.

[00:44:45] Nikki La Croce: I have friends where I've, I've experienced this, like, I want better for you. You deserve better. You know, you deserve better. Please just make this decision. I can't make you make this decision. Please just do it so we can stop having this conversation. And your whole life opens up when you make the call and you decide you're going to do it for yourself.

[00:45:03] Nikki La Croce: And I think that when. You have somebody who knows you as well as you know me. This wasn't people who met me later and maybe were like, it seems a little off or maybe, I don't know. It's like,

[00:45:19] Nikki La Croce: if my sister had as much information as you had, she probably would have been saying the same thing to me, right? And so I think it really meant a lot coming from you in particular. And then also the fact that you were there in the throes of it as well. Like when, when it all ended, when it all came crashing down and then losing my mom.

[00:45:39] Nikki La Croce: It was like, you, you know, you said you were kind of like, if this is gonna be the, the riff that we have in our friendship, then, then, so, so be it, but, I mean, I think if anything, it gave me a lot more perspective and, and gratitude for the relationship that we have, because I think it's a very lucky thing to have.

[00:45:59] Nikki La Croce: to have people in your support system who will say the hard thing, especially when they've said it to you before. So I, I do feel like, I know this is a little bit like a lengthy way of saying thank you for that, but really thank you so much because I think those are life saving conversations that people have that, you know, was challenging for you and I acknowledge that and I appreciate that you went out of your comfort zone for me for that.

[00:46:24] Nikki La Croce: And I also think that this is why I am such a proponent. And really encourage people, like, you feel like a burden, because you don't want to ask people for help or support, but the reality is, is that those people care, and they wouldn't be there if they didn't care. Do you feel like there are moments in your life where you've found that, like, because obviously you have a husband, I know your family, like, I know that you have support, but do you feel like your friendships have had some of those defining moments for you?

[00:46:55] Nikki La Croce: Obviously, a little bit, different in terms of context, but that, you know, you found that over the years that the friendships that you have, have held you more accountable to yourself as well.

[00:47:07] Erin Renner Steg: I think some of them, I, I think it's hard to find. friends like that. I do have friends that will be direct and like say it to me and not, you know, things that you know, you don't want to hear.

[00:47:20] Erin Renner Steg: Um, but at the same time, I think that I am probably a much more private person than a lot of my other friends in the sense that like, I don't just come out and share,

[00:47:32] Nikki La Croce: right?

[00:47:32] Erin Renner Steg: If it comes up or if you ask a question. And that is kind of like my entrance to like, okay, I think I'm going to talk about this kind of thing.

[00:47:41] Erin Renner Steg: If it's something that, so if

[00:47:42] Nikki La Croce: you had like a personal,

[00:47:43] Erin Renner Steg: yeah. If it's like deeply personal to me, like I will share. Um, but I also, not that I like, you know, my husband's my only friend, but I also think that because I feel like I can talk to him about Pretty much anything there are things where like I'll talk to him and be like you're not you're not the person to hear this I'm telling you this and like you are really trying to be supportive and understand But like I recognize that you're not you're really not the one that I need this support from.

[00:48:14] Erin Renner Steg: Yeah.

[00:48:14] Nikki La Croce: Oh, yeah.

[00:48:15] Erin Renner Steg: Um, which has taken me a long time to learn. I mean, I think growing up, it's constantly, especially in like relationships. Well, this is supposed to be my person. You're supposed to be my person. We're together. We're supposed to tell each other everything. You're supposed to make me feel better.

[00:48:31] Erin Renner Steg: You're supposed to You're relying on that

[00:48:32] Nikki La Croce: person to make you feel better. Well, it's like you can't ask one person to fulfill all of your needs and all of your support either.

[00:48:39] Erin Renner Steg: Right. Where it really is a matter of like, you need that person to be the one to make you think about what you need to do. Mm.

[00:48:47] Erin Renner Steg: Not for them to fix it.

[00:48:49] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:48:49] Erin Renner Steg: Um, and I think that, that takes a long time to learn. And also,

[00:48:53] Nikki La Croce: sometimes I think the benefit of that is also that they're requiring you to solicit other support because Nicole's had to do that with me, right? Where it's like, I know you have a big support system. You share it with them and then you also come to me and you're like, and all of this too.

[00:49:10] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Because you know, if you're lucky, you marry your best friend and you do, you want to share everything with them. And sometimes they're like, but not, maybe it's not me. Also, like they also have to have the freedom to say that too.

[00:49:20] Erin Renner Steg: Right. And like we kind of talked about before, sometimes when you talk to that one person about everything, it becomes compassion fatigue, you know?

[00:49:27] Erin Renner Steg: So I think that I have learned, like there are certain people that I will reach out to and like kind of talk to, but I'm also one of those people who's more like, Hey, You want to go grab coffee and then we can kind of like talk and have that conversation. I'm not always somebody who's just going to be like, I need to talk to someone.

[00:49:43] Erin Renner Steg: Let me pick up the phone and call them. Yeah. It's

[00:49:44] Nikki La Croce: funny because I, I am, I'm totally that person. And I, I feel like, Nicole and I have talked about this, where I'm like well, she's like, I just would never, I would never just think I should just call my best friend about this. And I'm like, I feel like that's immediately where my head goes.

[00:49:59] Nikki La Croce: So it's, this is one of those things where I feel like I will assume that because I'm like that, that other people will be like that too. And so especially when you have friendships and you're not in proximity to each other, like we're not right. I know that we might not talk for a while and be like, Oh, we should catch up.

[00:50:14] Nikki La Croce: It's been a minute or something. I'm also the friend that will kind of randomly be like, Hey, you were on my mind. What's going on? How are you doing? And I feel like that's a really helpful thing, especially for somebody who might be like, I'm not necessarily going to reach out. But if you happen to reach out at a time where it might be good for me to have support, I now feel like the door's been opened to that.

[00:50:33] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. So it's a little bit of, I do that impromptu, but I think there's also something to be said for being cognizant of a friendship like ours, where I care deeply, is that I think there's something to be said for being a little bit more intentional about being like, you know what, I haven't checked in with you in a while, maybe it Maybe I should do that.

[00:50:49] Nikki La Croce: Maybe that's something that can be for listeners and for myself to just be considerate of.

[00:50:53] Erin Renner Steg: Yeah. And I, I do think too, like with our relationship, like we do a lot of face timing, like if we do call, which I think, and I've said this so many times right now in this conversation and since I've been here that I'm such a face to face person.

[00:51:07] Erin Renner Steg: So even. I feel like there's a sense of accountability for me when I'm talking to somebody because you can't hide behind the phone. Like I might be like freaking out, but you might not know it because you're not looking at my face. But if you see my face and you can see that I'm like looking at you or I'm feeling uncomfortable or there's something else there that you're not saying, you know, it's, I think when I'm sitting with a friend or I'm looking at them, there's, there's It is easier for me to then have that conversation because they are observing this.

[00:51:41] Erin Renner Steg: When you're also fully engaged. Something is not right. Let me ask you a little bit more about that. Let me dig a little bit deeper. Um, and that's important with your friends to be able for them to observe that like something seems off. People often, I feel like that's one of my strengths with like my friendships and people in general is I think I'm a very observant person.

[00:52:06] Erin Renner Steg: I observe people's behavior often, like just in general, in my job, like everywhere. And I can see when something seems off or there's a different pattern of behavior or something shifts with people. So I think I look for other people to do that for me too. Oh, that's interesting. Because. I, I think that, I mean, behavior is communication to me.

[00:52:32] Erin Renner Steg: So there's only so much that you can like put up this wall and hide from when you're looking directly at somebody and maybe stumbling through a conversation or starting a sentence and not finishing it or looking down while you're talking. Like brushing

[00:52:48] Nikki La Croce: things off, brushing things off,

[00:52:49] Erin Renner Steg: trying to change the subject, you know, immediately if you're trying to change the subject about something, it means like, let's dig into this.

[00:52:56] Erin Renner Steg: And, and I think. Also, the I don't want to talk about it. Part of it is, is it's not okay. And I feel like that's often my go-to initially, initially you don't wanna talk about it initially I will say, um, I don't really wanna talk about it. Yeah. And then either eventually through conversation, I will feel more comfortable or it is a cue to me to say, I, I need to come back to this.

[00:53:22] Erin Renner Steg: Well, that's a, that's a really good, so I might not wanna talk to you about it now, but in my brain now I, I know that, you know, something is up because I said I don't wanna talk about it, but. I'm not ready to talk about it right now. It just reminds me that like, okay, this person knows something's up. When I'm ready to share it, I'm going to have this conversation with them.

[00:53:42] Erin Renner Steg: Now, do you communicate that second part?

[00:53:43] Nikki La Croce: What? Have that conversation with them? Or, um, so you were saying, if I say, I don't want to talk about it, you're sort of internally cued saying, okay, I understand that that means that they know now. So I have to, at some point, acknowledge this and bring it back around.

[00:54:00] Nikki La Croce: Would you say, I don't want to talk about it right now. When I'm ready to talk about it, I'll let you know.

[00:54:07] Erin Renner Steg: Sometimes. It depends on what it is. That's fair.

[00:54:10] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:54:10] Erin Renner Steg: It depends on who I'm talking to.

[00:54:12] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

[00:54:13] Erin Renner Steg: with my husband, it's like, I don't want to talk about it. And it's just implied that like, all right, this is going to have to be a conversation later.

[00:54:19] Erin Renner Steg: We're just going to like, let it be, which is really hard for my husband because he wants to talk about it right then and there. I used to be that

[00:54:24] Nikki La Croce: person.

[00:54:25] Erin Renner Steg: So, which is, which for me is not productive, not productive. I'm not saying I didn't hear you. I'm not saying that I, that I'm not recognizing something is not right here, but I need to wrap my brain around it.

[00:54:37] Erin Renner Steg: I need to process it before I'm ready to communicate it. Because I also know when I don't do that, how I communicate that is not healthy.

[00:54:44] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. No, the behavior leads the communication, which is that I'm going to be a bitch about it. Yes. And we'll, and it's. That was speaking for myself, but I feel like, you know.

[00:54:56] Erin Renner Steg: Very similar to me.

[00:54:58] Nikki La Croce: Well, and it's interesting too, because I would say I'm more similar to Austin in the sense of, I absolutely historically have been like, we need to resolve this immediately, because I don't want to sit with the discomfort of it just lingering around us. Nicole is somebody who needs the help.

[00:55:15] Nikki La Croce: To process and then come back when she feels like she's collected and ready to talk about it. I do think over the years, just in general for me and then also especially with Nicole, but my family, friends, etc. It's like, I feel like if you're the person who really wants to communicate now, and somebody else says, I need a little bit of time to process.

[00:55:37] Nikki La Croce: You have to give way to the person who needs time because time will serve both of you. Talking about it immediately will serve one of you, and it's not going to serve either of you.

[00:55:48] Erin Renner Steg: But it's also having the trust to know that we are going to come back to this conversation.

[00:55:53] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:55:53] Erin Renner Steg: Because there's also the, well, we're not going to, I don't want to talk about this right now.

[00:55:57] Erin Renner Steg: We'll talk about it later. And then I don't want to talk about it later. And I'm just telling you, we're never going to talk about it.

[00:56:02] Nikki La Croce: Right. Well, cause it's like, And

[00:56:03] Erin Renner Steg: then that just feeds the person who's like, but I wanted to talk about it right then and there. We still need to talk about it. And then it just, it just snowballs into something.

[00:56:11] Erin Renner Steg: So there's, there has to be kind of that trust between the two people that this is how you operate. This is how I operate. We will come back to this, just not right now.

[00:56:22] Nikki La Croce: Right, and you, you make a really good point about the trust piece of it, because I do think part of why I was an anxious person when it came to, let's talk about it now, the immediacy, that need that came with it, was I was with somebody, and not just one somebody, but several people at points in times in my life where it was like, then you never discuss it.

[00:56:43] Nikki La Croce: So then my need for the immediacy was, because if we don't talk about it now, we're never going to talk about it. And then I'm never going to feel heard or understood. I feel like one of the things that has been really nice as We've been chatting over your visit is to hear how you handle these things in your relationship, too.

[00:57:02] Nikki La Croce: Because it's, it is, I think there is a difference a lot of times in what I experience with Nicole. Like we experienced together as two females. Versus what, my friends who are married to men, my female friends who are married to men, their relationships with their husbands. Your husband is very emotionally aware and very emotionally intelligent and he is extremely communicative about those things.

[00:57:29] Nikki La Croce: So it's been really enlightening for me to hear how you speak about it and about the balance in your relationship and the intentionality around the discussions that you're having because I do think that so many people, and this can be in romantic relationships or friendships. or especially familial relationships where that underrug sweeping happens because you feel like the discomfort that comes with that is going to be just the absolute worst thing when in reality my experience both in my own life and what I've witnessed with people is it just builds a lot of resentment and then the discomfort it becomes greater and also now.

[00:58:13] Nikki La Croce: You have some form of frustration or anger that's also going to come out once that bubble bursts. And so, do you feel like, because you said, you know, you give, you give some credit to Austin for the way you've grown emotionally too. Do you feel like it sort of makes you more cognizant of how you approach situations with people now outside of just your marriage also?

[00:58:36] Erin Renner Steg: Yeah, I mean, I I mean, I think our generation in general grew up with the whole like,

[00:58:46] Erin Renner Steg: Which I understand why it was like that, and we did move on. Now we've moved on many years later, and we're figuring out how to fix that. Well, here's

[00:58:57] Nikki La Croce: the issue, here's the issue. We moved on, but then it was basically like we left something back there that we have to go pick up. Because the way I'm envisioning it is you're driving in a car, you're like, It's fine, we don't need to deal with that.

[00:59:11] Nikki La Croce: We're just gonna keep going to our destination. Well, you got to the destination, but now you're missing that part of the car that you needed.

[00:59:17] Erin Renner Steg: Yeah. And I, I understand the part of it that was meant to say life doesn't stop here. Like we don't just stop, like it doesn't just stop and we just sit here and we just like sit in this forever.

[00:59:31] Erin Renner Steg: It's like, you've got to be able to move on, but we're missing the piece on like, what's the healthy way to move on from this? Like, whatever it might be. Yeah.

[00:59:39] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:59:39] Erin Renner Steg: Um, I think I, you know, I still find myself doing that sometimes and then I'm just reminded

[00:59:50] Erin Renner Steg: like, we need to talk about this, or, you know, What did you do about that? And it's like nothing. Oh, well, this is really this is why this I'm feeling the way that I am because I know the connection between that is that like I'm gonna I am like Really good at acting like everything is fine. I am to a point To a point where it, it gets to the point where, um, the next minute, like once I hit that threshold, the next minute, I'm like, I'm not okay with anything that is happening right now.

[01:00:20] Erin Renner Steg: And I can't in that moment recognize that like, this is because I acted like everything was fine and it wasn't. I'm so driven in the sense that it's like, nope, I don't need that in my way. Like, I'm just going to keep on moving. It's not going to stop me. I don't want to deal with it. I'm just going to keep going.

[01:00:36] Erin Renner Steg: And I feel like if I just keep going, it will just go away. And then it never does.

[01:00:41] Nikki La Croce: This is, I think the mistake that a lot of us make, and it is a function, I think, of how we grew up. So this is where, you know, you can do a lot of learning, but if you don't do some unlearning with it, you're kind of, you can only go so far.

[01:00:55] Nikki La Croce: And I feel like that I'm fine until I'm really not. is one of the biggest challenges because that you're absolutely right. We have to be able to continue living our lives and be productive members of society while also learning to be emotionally responsible and understand ourselves enough to create meaningful change so that we can Live happier, more comfortable in our body lives.

[01:01:25] Nikki La Croce: Part of it is recognizing like the cues that are coming up before you get to that point too, because I, I feel like there's this sense of, as long as I can continue being productive, it's not affecting me. Mm-Hmm. . But sometimes what we're doing is we're overcompensating. And then, yeah, sure, you're super productive because you're also avoidant.

[01:01:45] Nikki La Croce: And when you're avoiding it, it's like you're kind of doing a trade off of, am I going to feel my emotions or am I going to do a bunch of things? And you just witness this a lot with people. I've had guests on the show where they're like, you know, I put all of my effort into my work or my schooling or my family or whatever it might be, and then I didn't give myself time for me, so then It didn't become at all about whether I wanted to or not because The breaking point came and my nervous system was like, well, you're gonna deal with it now

[01:02:17] Erin Renner Steg: Yeah

[01:02:18] Nikki La Croce: And I think that has such a more intense impact on the people around us Because they aren't witnessing all of the pushing through that you've been doing that led you to this point Anyway,

[01:02:28] Erin Renner Steg: well, and I think especially when I think about being a mom and you realize you have an audience You will always have an audience at this point.

[01:02:35] Erin Renner Steg: Whereas there was not really an audience before, whether that is like I'm talking to somebody about something in a certain way and my kids are watching me, how I'm communicating that. And then after you're done communicating, you're thinking they just watched that. What, how am I going to explain this to them?

[01:02:57] Erin Renner Steg: And, you know, it's never, I don't feel like it's ever been anything that is like so terrible that they, but it's a, it is, it's a reality. It's a, it's a reminder to me that what is a better way to communicate this? And it's oftentimes, I say this in my house all the time. It's not, What you said, it's how you said it.

[01:03:19] Erin Renner Steg: I'm listening to you, but I'm not going to listen to you if you're going to say it that way, because I know that my body cannot handle the tone that you're using with me. And it's going to create this frustration in me when you're talking at me, when you don't, maybe you don't even realize that you're doing it.

[01:03:36] Erin Renner Steg: Cause we all do it. I mean, it's impossible to say that you're never going to have a tone when you're being direct with somebody sometimes, but it's just. Reminding and kind of like having that reminder that you think about how you're communicating this to somebody, which until I had children, it wasn't.

[01:03:53] Erin Renner Steg: I didn't really care to be completely honest with you. I didn't really care. I, I would listen, like if, you know, Austin was like, uh, you know, maybe, maybe we could try that again. Like that was kind of our like phrase and be like, let's, let's try that again. But it was also, it was just, it didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

[01:04:11] Erin Renner Steg: Whereas now it does matter. It matters. And I don't want to have to turn to my daughters and be like, that's, I shouldn't have done that. And I'll admit it when I need to, but I don't want them to. to think that that is always how it needs to be. Yeah. It's going to happen. It's unrealistic to say that people are, that people are never going to yell.

[01:04:31] Erin Renner Steg: They're never going to like say things that they probably aren't in a kind way. It's never going to happen, but if you can at least recognize it. And like we've talked about, recognize those physical cues where like, I'm really starting to get worked up. I should take a break here before I continue talking.

[01:04:46] Erin Renner Steg: That's a strategy, you know? And like with kids, it's so much more primitive than that because there's only like, there's, it's so black and white with them. It's like, we're either really happy or we're not happy. So like, how do you like maintain this balance or how do you deal with it when you're not happy and when you're happy?

[01:05:04] Erin Renner Steg: Because sometimes that comes off as being way too overly excited, which can be a problem.

[01:05:10] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[01:05:10] Erin Renner Steg: You know, those can be hard to manage in some situations or sometimes like that overstimulation creates frustration for them, even though they're really happy. So it's teaching them how to regulate and recognize when their body is not in a calm.

[01:05:26] Erin Renner Steg: And maybe part of it is because, like, I've always been that person that does care what other people think. So now I care what my children think about me. I don't want you judging me. Maybe, I mean, it could be that, but I also know that it's not even just about them judging me. It's about this is They're going to learn this from me.

[01:05:44] Nikki La Croce: I think to that point, I loved what you said about, well, there's always an audience now. I feel like that's so poignant and, and really true because, you know, I think about just sometimes when I'm out in public and you see, you know, I don't have kids, so I'm not sitting here trying to judge people on how they're parenting or what they're doing.

[01:06:02] Nikki La Croce: But I do think that there are behaviors that as a human being, maybe don't be like that, whether you have kids or not, but now you're doing that and your child is witness to it. It. It really makes you think about how, I mean, even not having kids and being around children, being cognizant of what am I like?

[01:06:19] Nikki La Croce: How am I behaving? How do I respond? Because I don't want my niece and nephew to think that Aunt Nikki is a raving lunatic,

[01:06:27] Erin Renner Steg: you know? But I think it's important. The biggest piece of it to me is that it's okay to feel that way. Like for kids, like anxiety. You don't need to label it as a bad thing. It's, it's a feeling.

[01:06:42] Erin Renner Steg: We all have it. It's how you deal with it. Like, how do you deal with your anxiety, your frustration, your anger? How do you deal with your excitement? Like, all of them are not You shouldn't feel ashamed if you feel anxious or you feel angry or you feel frustrated. Feelings are feelings. That's it. Right. And it's just how do you, how do you react or how do you manage that when your body is feeling that way or when you're reacting in that way?

[01:07:10] Erin Renner Steg: That's the biggest piece. Where I always look, and I still probably do, at like anxiety and frustration as like it's such a negative thing. Like when you're feeling anxious, it means something bad. When you're feeling frustrated and angry, it means something bad. Where it's, it's not, it's a feeling and it's okay to have the feeling.

[01:07:30] Erin Renner Steg: It's just not okay to communicate it in a way that's unhealthy.

[01:07:35] Nikki La Croce: Part of what you're saying is, you know, to think about, okay, I perceive anxiety or anger as bad. Because of how literally I feel un calm in my body. Yes, it's uncomfortable. It's very uncomfortable, therefore it must be bad. Right. So in reality, maybe it's about reframing it and being like, okay, anxiety is uncomfortable.

[01:07:58] Nikki La Croce: Anger is uncomfortable. These things are uncomfortable and therefore I am feeling some type of way or I'm responding some type of way about it. And I also think there's an important distinction between reacting and responding because I will react in anger. I prefer not to respond in anger. And so I think there is that moment that you need to be able to have where you start to feel it bubbling up and being like, I'm going to react or I'm going to respond, you know, that is a skill.

[01:08:32] Nikki La Croce: We have to acknowledge that we have an issue with it to be able to effectively regulate and manage it. And that was something that I distinctly worked on in therapy because I knew it was a problem for me. I've witnessed it in my parents. So it was like, I, if I just have a split second to allow myself to make the choice, I can make the right choice.

[01:08:53] Nikki La Croce: I might

[01:08:54] Erin Renner Steg: be a little clipped. I think that's the piece too, is it was. in like in my mind until probably until I became a teacher and he just learned so much about like emotional intelligence and like teaching social emotional skills and all these things. It is a choice. Like we, I read this book to Piper.

[01:09:13] Erin Renner Steg: Um, it's like this series, it's like the power to choose. Right. And it's like, you can, you, it's the story about this kid and like, he's in a variety of scenarios and you pick which how you're going to respond. And then, you know, it's a whole journey. Then you go to this page. If you pick this one or whatever.

[01:09:30] Erin Renner Steg: But I use it all the time now. You have the power to choose. Like it is your decision to choose how you're going to react. It is no longer okay to say, well, that's just the way I am. Well, I think adults need to be reading this book. I mean, it really, it's like, it, like, it seems, it's so powerful to me. It is just so, and, and it's at the point now where my daughter will like read and she goes, I'm going to do bad choice, good choice, bad choice, good choice.

[01:09:59] Erin Renner Steg: And she'll like, cause it becomes a game. You're like, welcome to your 20s. But I appreciate that she recognizes this one's the bad choice, this one's the good choice. And then it's like, well, what happened when you chose to react this way? Well, this is what happened. Um, so just that idea of like you have the power to choose how you react in any situation is something that I really never thought.

[01:10:21] Erin Renner Steg: It's such a simple thing.

[01:10:22] Nikki La Croce: My mom would always say, think before you speak. And I, I wish that it had been more. about choosing because the thinking before I spoke didn't really come naturally to me. I blame a little bit of the impulsivity part around that where it was like, I just, I'm reacting full blown.

[01:10:41] Nikki La Croce: Whatever's happening right now is like, you're in the line of fire. It's

[01:10:44] Erin Renner Steg: also could be like, think before you speak, like, yeah, I'm thinking about all the things I'm going to say to you right now. I'm thinking, I'm thinking about it. I'm going to think about it all first, and then I'm going to say it all to you.

[01:10:52] Erin Renner Steg: I'm going to spew it at you at an

[01:10:54] Nikki La Croce: aggressive pace. Well, and that was the thing too, is I think when my anger was at its worst. This was with my parents, this was in relationships of any kind really, is I would just blow up. I'm like, everything I'm saying right now is intended to cut you deep. I'm throwing word daggers at you, duck and cover.

[01:11:14] Nikki La Croce: And there was such a sense of remorse afterwards. But in the moment, it was like, I don't care at all. Like, I'm coming for you. I'm going for the jugular. Like, I don't want to, you've upset me to a degree where all I can do is be so, it. It comes from such a place of insecurity because it's very much the, I feel threatened by what you've said or done to me.

[01:11:37] Nikki La Croce: So now I'm going to come after you full force. And part of that, I think in my last relationship was, I mean, when you get gas lit a lot, I actually learned about this. I had no idea that this was a thing until within the last year, there's this concept called reactive abuse, which I don't really like the terminology because I think it's a little bit misrepresentative.

[01:11:55] Nikki La Croce: Um, somebody who is, I getting gaslit a lot because people are like, that's not true. That's not your reality. And you're like, no, I understand my reality. Stop fucking with me is that you can get very defensive and cutthroat with people because you're tired of being gaslit. So I a hundred percent will take accountability that when I had my ragiest moments, it was like, I can't take this anymore.

[01:12:16] Nikki La Croce: I'm gonna lose it with my parents. That's not what that was. That was just me being. Petulant. Um, but when Nicole and I, you know, the first like disagreements, things that we had moments of tension weren't, they weren't big, but you know, you're very aware of how you're responding to things. And so, I would be more snappy than anything and Nicole will not receive that.

[01:12:42] Nikki La Croce: She's like, I don't understand why you're being like this. And I had to sort of check myself and be like, this is how I've always reacted. You know, my parents, they're, that is their variety of frustration and anger is to snap. And so speaking of it being modeled, there you go. I learned it. Right. And also because I was in this really messed up situation, That I was kind of teed up when I would get angry to respond in a way that I was used to.

[01:13:14] Nikki La Croce: I always said to Nicole that I don't, I said things to my ex that I will, I should not have said. Um, I called her names when I felt frustrated that nothing got through to her. I don't think it was a respectable thing for me to do and I will own that. I can sit here and say that and then also internally feel a little bit if I'm being totally honest, like, but.

[01:13:39] Nikki La Croce: At that point, I felt like the words were all I had. Um, and Nicole was like, I'm drawing this line in the sand. You're not going to speak like this to me. Like, you don't need to snap at me. You don't need to, like, you're putting me on edge because what, because this didn't work the way you wanted it to work or because you wanted to set this thing up and it didn't happen like that.

[01:14:02] Nikki La Croce: Or it's like, none of these things that you're describing need the level of reactivity that you're having right now. And it was like, but I have to teach myself Not to react that way and so we had a like a moment in time for us where I was like, okay I get it. I can't react here But so then when I'm reacting here what you're not understanding is that even though it still feels heightened to you Is that it's much less than it would have been other right and I'm like, so I'm doing my best and we're like It might be a gradual You know, lowering of the tension and intensity, but I'm doing it.

[01:14:35] Nikki La Croce: I'm really trying. And so there was a period in our relationship early on where I had to be like, I know it doesn't seem like I'm not being reactive, but this is so much less reactive than I could be. And I think that if you understood that, which I don't want you to understand it, but if like you could understand it, it would really help me out because I have grown and I'm really trying.

[01:14:54] Nikki La Croce: And something happened recently where I forget what exactly it was. Oh, Nicole gave me some feedback on something, uh, I think about my podcasting. She's like, I need you to understand that this is not an attack on you as a person, you know, preface it with the I'm not coming at you. This is an observation that I've made that I think you would want to hear.

[01:15:12] Nikki La Croce: Okay, great. Gives me the feedback and I'm sitting there holding my mug and I'm thinking, it's reasonable feedback, but I'm like rubbing my mug as myself. It's a

[01:15:23] Erin Renner Steg: strategy though. You're calming your body.

[01:15:26] Nikki La Croce: I'm allowing my brain to process it while my body's rubbing my coffee mug and just quietly listening and looking at her with wide eyes and being like, Okay, I understand that.

[01:15:37] Nikki La Croce: Yes, and afterwards she was like, you handled that really well, and I was like, so processing. But that reaction that I'm so used to having was criticism equals rage. And my body's like, we're gonna, we're gonna get mad, and I was like, no we're not. We're not gonna do that this time, and it was like, but you are, and I'm like, I'm not gonna.

[01:15:58] Nikki La Croce: And the hardest thing for me was to sit there and be like, You're right. And, and I think that so many times when we're in situations where we get frustrated, it is natural to feel like you want to dig your heels in because you want to be right, even if you know you're not fucking right. And it's the silliest thing ever, because I could go to, I could go to the mat on something that means nothing to me, on the sheer desire to be right.

[01:16:20] Nikki La Croce: How is that valuable to anybody?

[01:16:21] Erin Renner Steg: I'm just like drawing connections to to just like so many facets of our lives like whether it be like you said a relationship with your family, your relationships with your friends, your significant other, like work. Like I think about like being at work constantly on this journey.

[01:16:37] Erin Renner Steg: How do you communicate in a way where you are accepting feedback, because that's important, and you are truly accepting it, also helping other people grow. Well, I was

[01:16:47] Nikki La Croce: going to say, because the other thing is, is that feedback, actual constructive feedback is intended to help you grow. Constructive criticism, right?

[01:16:58] Nikki La Croce: My mom would always say I was terrible at accepting it. And I really think that being in a professional environment where you have to learn to take it is a lot different. Coming from a parent. For

[01:17:11] Erin Renner Steg: me was harder. Also in how it's presented though. Again, it's how it is presented to you. I

[01:17:16] Nikki La Croce: will say though I think my parents probably had Reasonable delivery on certain things where I was just like I don't like that.

[01:17:23] Nikki La Croce: You're giving me feedback Screw you. It's your

[01:17:25] Erin Renner Steg: parents, right? And because you're a teenager. Yeah, I don't care what anybody thinks You're wrong. I knew myself They're like, you don't have the life experience. You don't know me. Yeah,

[01:17:37] Nikki La Croce: exactly. And so I think being in professional environments where receiving the feedback in a diplomatic way or even being able to give feedback in a diplomatic way really helps determine how You build relationships with people and relationships of trust where if somebody's giving you feedback and they can deliver it in a way where they're saying I'm saying this because This is how it will help you and you are open to growth to your point because you're not gonna grow if you don't get The feedback so we just want to be good at everything that we do and if somebody gives us feedback what I hear is I'm not good at what I do and it's like, that's not what I said.

[01:18:17] Nikki La Croce: You could still be good at what you do and also have room for improvement. And I do think that that's something that I read and listen to a lot about. Women in our age range really struggling with that because it, there was, There is a high propensity for us to feel the need to just inherently be good.

[01:18:37] Nikki La Croce: And if we don't do that, then we are failing. And you said it at the beginning of the conversation. Very few times has the feedback that I've been given in my life. actually been saying to me that I'm a failure.

[01:18:50] Erin Renner Steg: 100%. I 100 percent agree. But I also think giving feedback is an art because you do need to consider how you are communicating it to people so that they will receive it.

[01:19:03] Erin Renner Steg: Like you can't just expect people to listen to you. When you give them feedback, because it does, it depends on your relationship with them. Do they trust you? Do they like you? You know, like, do they respect you? You know, those are pieces where, you know, if you don't, if somebody doesn't respect me and I'm giving them feedback, they're never going to, even if I'm communicating it in the best possible way, they are still going to receive that in a way that's condescending.

[01:19:36] Erin Renner Steg: And that's me telling them they're doing something wrong because they don't respect me. So I think it just goes along with like, in order for you to grow and to help other people grow there, you have to be able to establish the trust and the respect with people in whatever relationship, whether it's work, family, whatever, that they are willing to accept it, trust that what you're saying is going to help them grow.

[01:20:04] Nikki La Croce: Because you can

[01:20:05] Erin Renner Steg: also sometimes be given feedback where you're like truly thinking to yourself, I hear you, but I really don't agree with that. And I, and I'm not because I think I'm like what you're saying is absolutely not right. And I'm perfect. But maybe like what you're communicating to me. I don't either, I don't feel like is going to help me grow is something that is not.

[01:20:31] Erin Renner Steg: important. Like maybe you're giving me feedback on like minor details. I don't think are going to help me grow. So I'm confused about why we're focusing on this. I'm still listening. Right. But if I respect you and I think that what you're saying is truly something I feel like I can do and if I feel like I can't do it, are you offering me support?

[01:21:00] Erin Renner Steg: Sometimes we say here's my feedback. I'm gonna drop it here, figure it out. If you're gonna give me feedback, clearly it's something that I am not doing or that I might not be aware of. And I don't know how to do that because I'm not doing it. So what support are you going to offer me?

[01:21:22] Nikki La Croce: I think the idea of, okay, well, I'm giving you this feedback.

[01:21:26] Nikki La Croce: And I also, you know, if there's any way that I can help apply that feedback or give you insight as to why I'm offering this is something that. is really important for us to consider when we are the givers of the feedback and even just in the last couple of days when Nicole and I've been talking to you about things that we're doing with our businesses is just like, okay, I want to hear your perspective.

[01:21:48] Nikki La Croce: We're trying to get as much information as we can from people who are, you know, either the demographic that we're talking about or in general, just like, how do you think about these things? And because we want to do what we're going to do well. There are things where my immediate thought is like, this is great feedback.

[01:22:08] Nikki La Croce: I really want this feedback. And then this other part of my brain going, okay, that means we have to consider this or maybe reconsider this thing. And I think sometimes we don't want to consider feedback because, or, or accept feedback because we don't want to have to deal with the complexity of change.

[01:22:27] Nikki La Croce: It's very counterintuitive, and to your point, we don't always have to apply the feedback that we're getting. I think you can feel strongly about what you're doing, why you're doing it, and stick to that, and still acknowledge what somebody says. I think a lot of times what can be really valuable in those moments is kind of keeping it in your back pocket in case it does happen.

[01:22:49] Nikki La Croce: Serve a purpose later also. Mm-Hmm. also, and I've had that happen in work experiences or in life experiences where somebody says something to you and you're like, I'm thinking about that now. Maybe I could do that differently. Or maybe because we had this conversation, I'm going to approach something differently now.

[01:23:05] Nikki La Croce: And that's a lot of what I guess. in, in reality, when I think about this podcast, a big part of what I hope is that people who are listening are, are, are feeling that this is sort of a fly on the wall feedback mechanism where it's like, are you getting something from it? Do you feel like you're walking away thinking a little bit differently about how you're approaching life and what you're taking into the world with your approach to your relationships with people?

[01:23:30] Nikki La Croce: And to me, that sort of subtle, Yet intentional dialogue is something or subtle message and intentional dialogue is something that it does I think make it easier sometimes for people to hear because You might not be really receptive to somebody flat out saying you need to communicate differently Here's why but you hear people talking about it, and you're like maybe I should Maybe I should, should do that differently next time.

[01:23:58] Nikki La Croce: I'm gonna have to chew on that one. And I feel like that's the greatest compliment to get from people and it's a little bit of how you started, right? Isn't it? You're like when you're listening, it's like, oh, I got something from that. I walked away thinking about it differently. I feel like if the relationships in your life aren't giving you perspective and support, then it is important to sort of ask yourself, What's the purpose?

[01:24:21] Nikki La Croce: Why are we here? Why are we doing this?

[01:24:23] Erin Renner Steg: Yeah, and like that's we've talked about like the phases of friends like you have friends in different stages of your life because Maybe a lot of times it's just because we're doing the same thing. We have the same interests So therefore our connection is stronger during that time.

[01:24:38] Erin Renner Steg: But then once we're not doing that thing, we might not be as strongly connected and I think It, it varies and it's okay, it's okay to not be lifelong friends with every single person that comes into your life. It'd be unmanageable. But I also think like we're just lucky, like, I don't think there's a lot of people that have lifelong friends.

[01:25:06] Erin Renner Steg: I think there are. I mean, I think people usually have small groups of lifelong friends. Yeah. Um, but I think that is a treasure. I really do. And sometimes I don't know that people value those friendships because it takes work, but it's also because you have found somebody, like we've said, that really has helped you grow in every single stage of your life.

[01:25:29] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:31] Erin Renner Steg: We find people in different stages. There's not that many people that are there at every single stage of your life.

[01:25:37] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, and I feel like This is what I always say at the end of episodes, Nicole called me out on it. As we're rounding out the conversation, I think that's a really great way to bring it together because this is a really exciting thing for me to be able to share the mic with you, to sit here in person, because there's so many wonderful conversations that you and I have had over the years in the last several days all of the above and Something that I deeply desire is to do more of these in person And I think that it's one thing to sit across from a guest and ask them questions about their life Because you don't know anything about their life.

[01:26:12] Erin Renner Steg: Mm hmm

[01:26:13] Nikki La Croce: versus sitting across from somebody where it's like I actually we're gonna just have to have a conversation here because I feel like I know You So much.

[01:26:21] Erin Renner Steg: Mm hmm.

[01:26:22] Nikki La Croce: So the freedom to sort of choose the power to choose the power to choose the conversation that is most meaningful to us in a given moment, and I think will create an impact for listeners.

[01:26:35] Nikki La Croce: I'm really glad it was about communication, about friendship, about emotional regulation and understanding those core parts of who we are, because I do think that so much of that is the foundation of why this friendship has I don't want to even say lasted as long as it has because there's never a feeling of it.

[01:26:54] Nikki La Croce: It's evolved.

[01:26:54] Erin Renner Steg: I mean, it has truly evolved throughout the years. Like it's from like, we're just playing together to like, now we are like living completely different lives in different ways, learning things in our own experiences. But I think we're, we're able to share so much with each other to, to kind of help us continue to live out these positive experiences.

[01:27:17] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. And there's not a moment that I would hesitate to contact you or express to you if I needed you. And you said that to me when I picked you up from the airport, right? You're absolutely right that this is, this A very special relationship and this is a very special moment. I'm so glad that you shared the mic with me, Renner.

[01:27:40] Nikki La Croce: Thank you for joining me. Thank you so

[01:27:42] Erin Renner Steg: much. This has been so much fun just to see you in your element and even like you from where you were to even having a podcast. I mean, I've known about your podcast, I've listened to your podcast, but seeing how just even this has evolved, um, has been really amazing.