How Stories Shape Our Lives and Legacies with Andrew Hall

[00:00:00] Andrew Hall: We will have to, like, wade through the cringiness and find some gold nuggets, but I think it's probably worth it. Uh, yeah. And I think there's just so much depth to your life and so much tangible stuff that you lose. So when I look back at something ten years ago, like, you just see the outlines and, like, the headlines and stuff, right?

We have the tools now, like, let's use them. Let's, like, just capture a bunch more and we throw out what we throw out. But I'm sure we'll preface some of the little things we find.

[00:00:36] Nikki La Croce: Hey, Andrew, I'm really happy to have you here today. Thanks for joining me on Can I Just Say?

[00:00:41] Andrew Hall: Yeah, good to see you again. I'm excited to chat.

[00:00:44] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, it's really nice to meet people through the podcast who I might not have otherwise met. And I feel like, you know, our introduction was outside of the typical platforms.

And so I'm always kind of intrigued when people end up finding me or reaching out to me and wanting to share their stories because I, I value the art of storytelling, and I know given what you do, especially with your business, No Story Lost, that obviously storytelling is a really big component of your life and your work.

So, as we jump into the conversation, I'd be Curious if you could share with listeners a little bit about what you're doing with No Story Lost, um, if you want to summarize a little bit what it is and then share maybe the catalyst for like how you actually landed on this was the thing that you wanted to do at this moment in time.

[00:01:36] Andrew Hall: Yeah, for sure. Um, I'll do those in reverse. I'll start with a bit of the backstory. So, yeah, I grew up in Calgary with some really close family on my mom's side. So we would probably like 12 to 15 of us would always be together for family dinners, birthdays, Thanksgiving's, Christmases. Uh, so when you stack up that many people, that many birthdays and holidays, we were together every couple of weeks, um, for family dinners and hangouts.

And that was all kind of like, Led by my grandma and grandpa, uh, who we called Nam and Pop. So like the patriarch and matriarch of that family. And Pop, uh, was like the storyteller, entertainer. Always funny to either laugh along with him or sometimes at him and his antics. So he'd always be telling stories.

and singing songs and entertaining people. And so for my whole childhood, we would always hear our aunts and uncles and parents say, man, somebody has got to write pop stories down. Uh, they're so funny. They're so good. It's like really our history as a family, like someone's got to do something about this.

And then I'd hear that again. And I, I heard it for like 10 or 15 years and nothing ever happened. Uh, and so I moved out to the West Coast and I'd be back still seeing, seeing family for holidays and stuff. And eventually I thought to myself, I'm like, I keep hearing this. Someone says it again, like no one's done anything.

Let's just, I'll just sit down and type while he tells stories. Um, so the, the first time I did that, I sat and literally like, Like back to while he told stories for a while, learned that that was maybe not the best way to record his stories, but got a bunch of them down for like, for the first time someone's done something about it.

And so then, uh, my cousin who is also my co founder on multiple different businesses, he and I sat down with him another time, this time learned a lesson and just hit record on our phone on voice notes while he chatted, which as a side note. Anybody and everybody should deal with their parents and grandparents.

Like, it's just too easy now to let stories like slip away. So if that's all you do, that's a huge win. Just record.

[00:03:48] Nikki La Croce: Just this morning, I was saying to my wife, like, I wish that I had more memories with my mom as an adult that I'd actually like recorded and had conversations or or take in the videos or things like that that I didn't do.

Because when you're younger, I mean, you might digest the information, but I think things don't necessarily stick with you as much. And I found that the older that I've gotten, the more I'm like, very, I'm more emotionally invested in knowing those stories. And when we lost my mom, it was like the stories that my dad is now sharing that And my mom probably shared more together, but now that she's not here, he's a, he, he feels comfortable and more open to share them with us.

And even just my grandfather just turned 97 and he's like, my grandparents, thankfully on my dad's side are still very, Coherent and capable of sharing more. And so my wife even said to me, she's like, I mean, why don't you just sort of ask? Like, what memories do you have from your childhood? I mean, they might, it might be a big reach right now, given their age, but

[00:04:54] Andrew Hall: It's 90 years ago.

Yeah.

[00:04:56] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Right. I'm like, I don't even remember what happened like five years ago. So good luck on that one. But. I think it's really an important thing that you mentioned that because we have the opportunity to do this, I mean, it doesn't even have to be video to your point. Like, I think just being able to hear the voice, you know, like I cling to these like voicemails from my mom and like little notes or videos that I have, but like, I'd love to have more.

And so I think when you lose people, especially you find yourself really craving that because when their voice isn't, part of your life any longer. It's like almost jarring when you do hear it again, if you don't have that memory sort of circulating.

[00:05:30] Andrew Hall: Yeah, for sure. And I feel like there's a subset of us who haven't asked our grandparents, like anything, or our parents.

And then there's a, there's a group that's like, yeah, we've chatted, but like, we just asked the basic questions. We've heard the same basic stories a few times, but it doesn't take like, a master interviewer to get to this next level. You just have to be a little bit creative in asking like a slightly different question, which will actually kick them out of that process where they tell the story they always tell and instead like get them to remember something else.

So what's an example of this? Yeah, you can like, one thing our interviewers do is like work with senses. So they'll be like, Like, what if I ask you, like, what's the smell you remember as a kid? Like, that is so random and it's not necessarily going to bring up a cool story, but it might. And it's like totally different than someone asking like, Oh, what was your childhood like?

Like it just, it's a different part of your brain. So that's, I don't know, that might be a bad example, but you can just, if you just attack from a different angle, you'll find something totally different.

[00:06:28] Nikki La Croce: I love that you tie it into sensory memory because it is so significant. Yeah. And. Um, it's funny because as I was setting up for this conversation, I bump into something and it falls on the floor and it was this tiny bottle of perfume of my mom's that I had taken home when I went back over Christmas.

And like, I took a, like, I took like a little whiff of it right before we hopped on. And it's like, it immediately like brings me to these moments of like, getting ready with my mom, like, um, particularly on Christmas Eve. Like, I feel like there was always a sense of like, we're all getting ready together.

And so going into the room while she's getting ready and like, it's just that type of seemingly small moment in our action brings back such a flood of memories. So I feel like that's such a great technique. I wouldn't have necessarily thought of and I'm so glad that you, you shared.

[00:07:17] Andrew Hall: Cool. Yeah. I mean, that'll also bring you back more viscerally too, than just like remembering the, the tale of a story or what the words of the story are.

Like smelling that perfume brings back feels probably, right? Like it really brings you into those moments. Yeah.

[00:07:31] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Sorry. Let's continue. Yeah. Well,

[00:07:35] Andrew Hall: let's continue the aside for a second too, is I think, you know, this is a good thought. Let's record our parents and grandparents. But also I've been thinking a little bit more about like, should we do more of that?

Just ourselves at whatever age. Um, and I saw someone recently post some viral video, which is like, um, She says like, normalize recording videos for your kids before you even have kids. So she's like, Hey kids, this is your mom just like heading out to prom, which I think would be so funny to see, like 20 years later.

Oh, that's hilarious. So we obviously, we're lucky now, like we've had phones that can record decently for at least the past, like, So, uh, I think we could do a better job too of just like recording stories and interviews of ourselves. So I just got back from Japan. I was there for two weeks and I'm thinking I might test this concept out, which is like related to our company, but like, what if we just spent some time recording like all the funny little anecdotes?

Cause we'll have the photos obviously, but there's like the little stories that might be easier to forget, which would be fun to record too. So, for example, in Japan, it's customary to not like eat and walk. So you might get somebody at a convenience store, you're not going to like walk down the street and like smash a banana while you're walking, uh, just like more polite to like stand off to the side or whatever.

So a couple of nights, my wife and I would be walking back from like a late dinner, we're in these quiet streets, I don't need to stop for like an ice cream sandwich at 7 Eleven, we're walking home and the streets are quiet, there's a couple of people around, but I don't want to eat our ice cream. So you'd be like, stop for a little bit and like munch on a little bite and then like look around and like keep walking.

You feel like you're like a bandit breaking some rule, but like trying to be polite still. And like, those are the silly little stories that like, we probably don't have a photo of that, but are fun to capture the details up to. So yeah, I think we can all do a better job of, uh, you know, sit down after a vacation and just like turn the camera on and tell some stories.

[00:09:34] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, I think that's such a beautiful sentiment to Andrew, especially considering how I think when you're collecting a lot of memories, too, and there's a lot happening that it's hard to sort of segment those things in a way that's cohesive, or even just, um, representative of the time in which it happened.

So it's even just to the point where I was saying to you before we started, I was like, Oh, I'll record the intro after we chat. Right. Because I'm in the zone of like, we had this conversation and here's what it's about. Right. And it's sort of that similar concept of you had this experience, like you don't necessarily have to focus on recording the experience itself.

Cause that can take away from the presence that you have in the moment. I find myself, I'm like a terrible shutterbug. I'm like, I just want to capture it all. So I remember it. Right. But it's a really. interesting thought to invite. Be present in the moment. Embrace that. Don't feel like you have to capture all of it in the moment that it's happening, but come back shortly thereafter while you still have the feeling while there's still that momentum of the experience and embrace that so that you can reflect on the feeling you had after it happened.

Especially as we get older, like I found a slew of tapes that are like mini DVs that I don't even have a camera to play it on anymore. And I'm like, what's in there? There's like, I, it's probably a lot of cringe. Cause I had this in like high school and early college, but there's this feeling of excitement about, Oh, what am I going to find?

Who was I? And then I'm like, Oh yeah, that's who I was. But there's, but it's nice to kind of see your evolution and, and also be able to identify things that are, are different. from who you were then versus who you are now or bring yourself back to a moment where you felt really strongly about something and were excited about something that maybe you have otherwise forgotten because it's just not something that's present in your everyday life.

Like those little drops of nostalgia.

[00:11:28] Andrew Hall: Totally. Yeah. I think we will have to like wade through the cringiness and find some gold nuggets, but I think it's probably worth it. Uh, yeah. And I think there's so much depth. To your life and so much, yeah. Um, tangible stuff that you lose. So when I, when I look back at something 10 years ago, like you just see the outlines and like the headlines and stuff.

Right. So to pull out the detail of an old DV camera, like you're in a sea and feel and remember a lot more depth, which is cool. Uh, so yeah, to cap off kind of that part of the conversation, we have the tools now, like. Let's use them. Let's just capture a bunch more and we throw out what we throw out, but I'm sure we'll preface some of the little things we find.

[00:12:12] Nikki La Croce: Oh, for sure. And I like that you said we kind of have to wade through the cringiness of it. And I definitely agree with that. It's funny because, you know, we're a lot more used to being on camera now too. And so I kind of wonder, um, and even just voice recording things as well. But I kind of think about how it was so exciting to have a camera to, like, I worked like one summer so I could buy a Sony handy cam because I just wanted to record things.

It was like, what was I even recording? Like, it didn't matter. Like you just wanted to be able to experience that and come back to it. And, you know, part of what I was really intrigued by when we were first introduced was the fact that like, it was really relevant because I had recently lost my mom, but also that I think we.

We lose sight of the importance of those connections sometimes. Like my family isn't particularly close. First of all, proximity, not very close at all. Um, but even just growing up, it was like, we didn't have FaceTime. So like my cousins who lived states away, like we would Talk to them on the phone, we wouldn't see their face.

Like, you don't really feel like you know them. And I feel like what you're doing with No Story Lost, and it sounds like just sort of the way that you're living, whether that's as a function of sort of growing that with the business or, or how you are generally, is that you are recognizing the importance of embracing those connections and allowing that to be something that you take.

on more intentionally? Do you feel like doing No Story Lost has given you more perspective on how you want to show up in the relationships that you have as well?

[00:13:51] Andrew Hall: Good question. I feel like the perspective is, has more cemented me into thinking about like, life and legacy and, you know, using how I'm going to use the next 50 years of my life.

Like sure. Some relationship stuff would come up too, as I like page through the books with people. Um, we always ask at the end of people's interviews, questions like, what do you think life is all about? Or what advice would you give to future generations or to your grandkids and stuff? So there's lots of good reflection that is so nice to preview, like to think, what are the feelings I'm probably going to have, why I'm more so looking back on life.

So I think it's given me like high level perspective to, to look and look at life at a, at a, at a high level more so than I was. And I think I was already like that. So that would be more my bigger reflection so far.

[00:14:45] Nikki La Croce: I think that's cool though. I feel like there's a lot to be said with that too, especially because I imagine it's somewhat similar to like when I'm doing the podcast where I'm getting all these really different perspectives, but there is, there are these sort of common threads that we see when people are nearing the end of their lives or have just had a lot of life to live already, whether or not the end is near.

Right. Um, and I think it, it shows a lot about what people retain. whether that is the memory itself or the feeling that it elicits. And I'm curious, you know, something that, um, you had written about was, you know, how important it is looking at our lives to really consider the values that we hold true to ourselves.

And I, I feel like that's something that's really, I find very important. I think. A lot of people find this important. So not to be like, yes, I value values also. But, um, do you believe that you're somebody who always sort of anchored around your values or is that something that has shifted as you've come more into your own story separate or in relation to no story loss, just really more about you?

[00:15:53] Andrew Hall: Yeah. So in terms of like my, kind of my, Evolution and introspection and values and that sort of stuff. There's basically like, I think about a time growing up where I just kind of worked like in my life, Going through the motions to a point where early twenties I started working on like personal development, goal setting, reflection, uh, and kind of working on my life.

Uh, so I could chat for a long, long time, all about all the books I've read and things I've learned about personal development and, and values is like one piece of that. So I do like a morning routine and there's. I have like my values written down amongst a whole bunch of other things. So I redo that from time to time.

Um, and then I have this thing called like my morning manifesto, which is the thing I read to myself, um, to remind myself of all the like things I've learned and things I want to prioritize in life. Um, so I think about that. Every day that I do my routine, which is not every single day, but, um, my favorite little story and exercise about values.

It comes from a friend of mine, Derek, uh, he runs a remote retreat program. Uh, and so he thinks a lot about this stuff too. Uh, and so his little exercises, like to think about values. In a bit more of an interesting way than like, write down your values. Uh, and basically it says, imagine that a documentary crew is going to follow you around for two weeks, uh, silently, and just see exactly how you live your life at the end of that two week period.

What do you think they would write down are your values? So it doesn't matter what's happening in your head, like, what are you living? And those are the values you're living. Uh, wow. Okay. And that's pretty,

[00:17:43] Nikki La Croce: that's going to really shine a light on yourself. Yeah.

[00:17:47] Andrew Hall: Yeah. It's a bit daunting to think about. Uh, and you're like, well, I guess you just have a still shot of me sitting at my laptop for eight hours a day.

It'd be kind of boring. I'm watching time. But then you think about like interactions with people and like basically how you operate when someone's not looking. Like you think about a lot of that kind of stuff. And when you ask yourself, what values am I actually living? Like it or not, those are your values right now.

They may not be your intended values, but that is what you're valuing at the time. And so then if you imagine like, what would you like for that documentary career to see ideally? Then you see the gap between the values you're living and the values you want to be living. And kind of similar to the question earlier in our conversation about the smell, like thinking of the same question in a totally different way, I think will elicit a different response in you than if I said, here's a piece of paper, write down your values.

You will attack the question completely differently thinking about the story instead.

[00:18:46] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, that's such a good point. And I love the practical application of the way that you're approaching this conversation too, because it's really insightful. And in particular, when you think about that exercise where it's like, if people were following you around, um, filming you, what would they see?

How do you show up in the world? How do you treat yourself? How do you treat other people? And. doing that with the mindset of sort of they're a fly on the wall, right? So they're cat they're catching it all. And it makes me think about the exercise that a lot of people talk about, which is writing your own obituary.

Like, what do you want people to say? But I like this way a lot better because then I don't have to think about my mortality in the same

[00:19:25] both: way.

[00:19:25] Nikki La Croce: And I also, and I also think that it gives you to your point, like more of a presence of mind of what is it right now and more perspective on like the feasibility of changing that.

now or in the near future. Whereas I think when you do the activity related to writing your own obituary or asking somebody to write it for you or whatever, that you're sort of, you're maybe kind of putting it so out in the distance that it's like not necessarily an actionable reflection of what it is that you want to achieve or how you want to be perceived.

It's more like aspirational rather than actionable.

[00:20:04] Andrew Hall: Totally. This reminds me of. You're a quote, your life is a photo, but you live in a pixel. So you can't just change the whole photo. Like your normal day is a Wednesday at 2 PM, not like your vacation that you take this year. Uh, so the, like you said, the actionable pieces in like the everyday little things, the camera crew following you around the things that you can probably actually realistically change.

Uh, but you can't in the moment change what's going to be in your obituary. Cause that's. The sweeping, giant change that takes place as you add up 10, 000 bricks to create the structure of your life.

[00:20:45] Nikki La Croce: Oh, I really love that quote too. What an amazing sentiment. I also give it that attribution.

[00:20:51] Andrew Hall: Sorry. Um, so it's from a blog that I love called wait, but why?

By Tim Urban, uh, and he's got some of my favorite blog posts. Like that's, that's definitely my most recommended blog.

[00:21:01] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, that's really cool. I, it reminds me too, of like, there was a period where I was doing a kind of photo mosaic stuff, um, where I was taking like photos from trips and, and. putting them into like the broader photo.

And I feel like it's, um, a really cool way of considering your life and thinking about how like those things actually factor into the bigger picture. Um, and how they develop throughout our life too. Like the picture can change, right. And then ultimately ideally does, but there's, as I said, you know, when we were first getting started, there's like this intentionality to it also.

And. Self awareness is so critical in actually getting to a place where you feel good about who you are and how you're living your life. Um, and when I was reading through your book, Die Gallantly, like one of the things that really stood out to me too was a tremendous amount of self awareness on your part where you'd actually written something.

Um, I think I have a note on it here. Let's see if I can find it. Um, you were saying, um, You kind of made a bullet point list of thinking about if you're in the best 1 percent or 0. 1 percent of something that there's a niche for you to own. Um, that like, if you want to, you could make a career. And you followed that with saying, like, I'll show my thinking.

Um, so I'm at the top 20 percent of, I'm just gonna list a couple things here, like business, writing, coaching, uh, bringing people together, et cetera. And then you also followed that up, you followed that up pretty quickly with, for humility, here are a bunch of things that I'm not 20 percent at, which I really appreciated.

And I say this because I, I think that it's really easy for us to lead with the, here are the things that I don't feel good about. Here are the things that like, I'm not happy with, or I wish I could be better. I see other people being better than me. Um, But the way that you approached it was, I think, with the level of confidence and understanding in what you're capable of and who you are, and then also saying, there's still room for improvement.

So there's, there's really a lot of value in striking the balance of what we recognize within ourselves as ways that we can accelerate or excel in life. Um, and then also take the humble moments and see how those. either play into those other items that we are in this top percent, or we can look at them and say like, okay, well, are these things that I really care about being better in?

Um, because I don't think we would list the things that we feel like we're not in the top 20 percent of if they aren't things that you also care to improve. Because I feel like it's of like out of sight, out of mind. Would you say that's sort of similar in your school of thought? And like, how was it for you to actually write that down and be like, okay, let me think about the things that I'm like?

Not the best at.

[00:23:53] Andrew Hall: Yeah. Um, okay. So I think we've all heard like, what are your strengths and then what are your weaknesses and how are you going to mitigate your weaknesses? And then I think more recently than that whole school of thought, I've heard more and more just be okay with your weaknesses and double down on your strengths because you could spend a lifetime trying to get better at the things you're not great at to bring yourself to like a six out of 10 at everything.

But to go back to the point about if you have one thing that you're really good at, that's enough. Like you only need to be 8 out of 10, 9 out of 10 at one thing in this life where we have access to a market of 7 billion people, uh, to create a really great, happy lifestyle for yourself. And so the other piece of that, uh, part of my book is about intersections of things you're good at.

So that comes from Scott Adams, who wrote the Dilbert comic strip. And so he basically said, and he's like, I realized that I was like, okay, at business, like pretty good top 20%, maybe. Um, Which isn't, he's not claiming to be the foremost expert in business. And then he's like, I was pretty funny. Like in the office, I was one of the funnier people.

And then I was okay at drawing cartoons. So if he only took one of those things, he's not going to be the best in the world at that thing. But by crossing those three things together, he realized like, okay, I'm probably one of the best suited people in the world to write a funny comic strip about office life and about business.

[00:25:21] both: Yeah.

[00:25:22] Andrew Hall: So that in that, he created like, here's the niche for myself where I can be off 1 percent or top 0. 1%, uh, by bringing three things together that I'm really good at.

[00:25:33] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. I, I was reading that and felt so much, shit. I felt so much while reading it because I feel like it's so easy to focus on the inadequacy or the lack or the inability that we might have when there's a learning curve and lose sight of where we can actually create something that we want in the process of that growth.

And I feel like that example is really great because. It's, it's a, it's a really straightforward example. It's, it's very straightforward, right? It's like, and you have a Venn diagram in the book at this point, which I really appreciate because I think that visual is really representative for a lot of us of like, okay, so you sit here and we berate ourselves and we're like, I'm not good enough or I can't do that.

Or I'm not going to be the best at this one thing. But what if you took this one thing and this one thing and this one thing, and we're like, well, what does that look like? What does that create? And is there opportunity there? Okay. And is that opportunity something that I want to pursue and I care about?

And to be able to look at it through that lens, I think gives a lot of clarity. Obviously, if you, if you come to that point and have like a good realization, but also I think it really gives at least my experience in reading that part was like, Okay, I'm, I'm too hard on myself for the things that I'm not doing, and I'm not capitalizing on myself for the things that I do well.

And I, I've been validated that I do these things well. So it kind of pushes to the forefront, this sense of accountability. Um, and, and shifting the mindset from I can't, or I don't to I already do and what does that mean for me?

[00:27:14] Andrew Hall: Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I would say like, if you're thinking about career and you're trying to produce that three layer Venn diagram, then all your weaknesses are actually off to the side.

They don't even relate to that part. Right. You can almost ignore them. And then another nice thing is like, When you're bringing those things together, it's lower pressure to think, Oh, I don't have to be 1 percent in the world at all three. If I'm like 25 percent in this one and top 13 percent in this one and top 40 percent in this one, don't make me do the public math, but the intersection of those three, it's going to be like top 1 percent at that specific thing.

And in those like weird niches is like where people can find a ton of unique passion and you can be your life. Terrific, weird self in that one thing. And again, like. To the, to the point about the world's huge and we can, through the internet work with people all over the world, you can be so hyper specific and find that you have a market of people who also like sports and anime and whatever, and like some funky combination and there's a market for you, which is a really cool part of the time that we live in.

I'm curious, did you have thoughts on like what you are pretty good at for two or three areas and how that comes together, be it for this podcast or for other parts of your career?

[00:28:38] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, that's a great question. Thanks for spinning that back. Um, so I would say yes. I, I know that like the, My ability to connect with people and a guest that I had on who's now a friend of mine had, I think summarizes it really well for me.

Um, so I can actually put words to it now is that I'm very good at creating a sense of intimacy in a short amount of time. And I'm like, Oh, okay. Like I feel that viscerally. Like I, that's, those are the words that describe, like, what I would say is my greatest strength and what I care the most about.

[00:29:08] both: Yeah.

[00:29:08] Nikki La Croce: Um, and then the other piece of it is that I feel like I can draw really good. not just conversations with people, but like help people build connections as well because of the type of person that I am and the way that I connect with people. And so like at, it's funny because at the intersection is really what my wife and I are actually building.

Um, it's still a little bit in its infancy, but it is related to building a community around some of the, the passions that we both have in terms of creating more connectivity to people. And what I, this. was born of me looking at it going, okay, like I have this podcast, but the podcast isn't like everything for me.

It's something that I appreciate. And I have gratitude for in terms of the relationships that I create with people. But It's always sort of just been this podcast. And I said the other day, I was like, I just don't see myself only as a podcaster. And I think what I'm doing is I'm unnecessarily limiting myself to the thing that I'm like, well, I'm going to do this.

I want to be the best. And I put that in air quotes because it's like, I'm not seeing her being like, I need to be the best podcaster ever. Right. But I want to give it my best. And so I care about it. But I think because there's so many limitations around it that I could easily squander what we're talking about here, which are like my, like the places where I excel.

If I like only try to keep it in this container, then I'm not really tapping into my genius and giving more opportunity to myself to then make a broader impact.

[00:30:46] Andrew Hall: Cool. Yeah. I like how it's like abstracting and then getting more specific. So you're like, you could get caught up in like, how do I expand from the podcast?

And it can be helpful to be like, well, really what am I doing? Or what are the core skills that I'm good at? Which I show in the podcast that I can like move to other things. And I wanted to also say how special is it when somebody, this happened to me too, when someone can put your unique talent and say it to you in those words like that.

I was lucky to have that moment as well from a close buddy, actually the same guy I was mentioning before who runs the retreat. Um, he was like, I think your purpose is this. And it was really cool to hear from somebody else. Do you want to share what that was? I'll try to remember it. Probably like 10 years ago, but it was something like, uh, bringing a group of people together to accomplish big things, something like that.

[00:31:36] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that, that seems really obvious, just given your approach, like your, Somebody who I think from our, obviously it's like our second, uh, face to face interaction. So, um, I'm speaking from my experience, but it seems that you're coming from a place of, you know, desire to make a positive impact.

And I know that like your previous business was, or at least one of your previous businesses was, um, a give back brand. Right. And so it seems like from what I'm seeing that whether it's through You know, helping people sort of solidify their legacy or helping create more opportunity for people that, um, having some impact on a societal level seems like it's important to you.

Would you say that that's something that you agree with? And if so, is that something that you've always felt inclined towards, like kind of having a, a larger scale impact?

[00:32:29] Andrew Hall: Yeah, uh, first of all, it's cool for me to have like, just told you that, uh, piece from my friend about what he thinks my purpose is.

And that's someone who knew me super, super well, but then it's also cool to hear from someone who I've interacted with, like he said, for like a total of an hour now and just hear what your hot take is like your quick reaction. Um, okay. So thoughts on. producing impact and like what my legacy might be or what's important to me.

Um, first of all, that same family I mentioned, and also my core family definitely gave me like really good perspective from a young age on volunteering and giving back. So like a funny example is at Halloween every year, we get our huge bundle of candy and we have to like cut it in half and take half to the children's hospital to kids who couldn't go out trick or treating.

Like, you're five years old, you're getting lessons like that. Like, that's a pretty good start. Um, and my younger, I feel like as

[00:33:21] Nikki La Croce: a five year old, you're probably like, where's my candy?

[00:33:24] Andrew Hall: Screw this. Um, but yeah, maybe also learning a lesson at the same time. Um,

[00:33:29] both: yeah,

[00:33:30] Andrew Hall: my younger brother has down syndrome, so I learned super young as well, like, uh, to be.

Patient and empathetic. Um, so that was very helpful for me. And then when it comes to like getting into career, um, I went to business school in Victoria, which has, uh, at UVic, there's a much more holistic business program. So as opposed to like cranking out the best in the world, like finance people or HR people, really specific things that other schools might do.

It tried to just give a very holistic view of business. So we studied sustainability in business before it was a thing or before it was as big of a thing. And so we, yeah, we did a couple like key projects and watch some key videos on stuff that made us realize like, okay, there's some problems with capitalism.

There's some things we've done really well and things we haven't done so well as a society. Like business is a very powerful vehicle in which you could affect change. And then I also came across. this thought experiment by someone named John Rawls. I think it's in the book as well. Um, and it basically, it's called the original position and it says, okay, imagine you're like sucked out of this world for a second and you're sitting around with some other souls and trying to determine like how to make, how to make the world, uh, that you'll go back into and how you'll make the world fair and what rules will govern it and how everyone will live.

Except the trick is you don't know like which body you're going back into and where you're going to live. And so you ask yourself like, Oh, maybe spread things around more evenly, knowing I could end up anywhere and in any body in any position. Uh, and that really made me think It gave me perspective on all the like privilege of growing up how I did, um, and wanting to think, okay, like I'm going to have a business degree.

I want to build businesses and do cool things, but like, maybe I can do that in a way that makes positive impact too. And shares a little bit of like the benefit that I've had. So that was like, those are the core concepts that kind of came together. Um, and so my co founder that I mentioned, he and I both got our degrees and then both started working in the dream job for business students, which is like big four company accounting and consulting jobs.

So like straight into that corporate ladder. type of thing. And so great connections, great experience. And honestly, like laid a really strong foundation for us running businesses, but he lasted six months. I lasted a year and a half, and then we quit working at those to start our own thing. And our idea, our first idea and our first business together was called meal share.

So we partnered with restaurants and we put our logo next to some menu items. And if you bought a meal share item, you'd provide one meal to a So basically saying like, how can we use the power of the system that we live in capitalism, uh, to provide positive impact. So there's lots of margin in lots of businesses, maybe not in restaurants, and you can learn some hard lessons that way, but can we take a little piece of capitalism?

The way that business works and make more businesses responsible and make our businesses have positive impact. And so we grew that business for like eight years together. Um, and then we had 500 restaurant partners on the program and then COVID hit and it became illegal to go to restaurants for a while.

And so that was not good for a nonprofit that only worked with restaurants. Uh, so that started, uh, uh, demise that was hard to come back from, but then since then, yeah, I've also worked on No Story Lost, which we've talked about a bit. Uh, and then I do like you, I think alluded to as well, I do some coaching, um, just to try to help entrepreneurs be happier and get more of what they want.

I think the first one was like the most clear cut and dry, like this is a business to make the world better. And then no story lost and coaching, I think have like positive impacts as well.

[00:37:27] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Do you feel like, I mean, because to your point, I think one of those is like a very tangible output sort of model where, um, it in as much as I can tell from what you've shared and what I had read previously about your businesses that that's sort of the, the essence of give back profit sharing sort of like, um, really being able to say like, when this happens, then this is the, the output.

This is the result that somebody gets the benefit of. Whereas No Story Lost and coaching, I'm sure is something where you don't necessarily see, um, something that's completely tangible and cert or I don't want to say it's not tangible because I think you can visually and emotionally feel the things that that are coming from people in those moments.

But like, It's not the measure of success, I think, is very different when you look at those types of, um, roles or, or businesses that you're creating versus having something that is very monetarily driven because that's the, the function of what you're trying to achieve there. So how was it for you? Like, do you prefer to do the thing that is Less like dollars and cents and more like tapping into like the emotional tangibility of it.

Is that something that like you feel glad that you've kind of transitioned to that part in your life? You could see yourself kind of going back to, or at least like straddling sort of both of those things.

[00:38:52] Andrew Hall: With a meal share, like we wanted to build a business that did good and provided business value, not just ask for like a handout.

This was our first business. I think we did this to some extent, which was like, we accidentally found a nascent problem with restaurants where they wanted to give back, but they had a million things going on and they just wanted like an easy way to say like, we are doing our part. We're helping out. And so again, we kind of accidentally fell into that.

We didn't know what that was like an issue that restaurants had, but we didn't just go to restaurants and say like, Hey, will you donate? Like we said, can we build into the way this business works and create positive consumer value where people will then think of the restaurant in a more positive light, uh, and also take some work and pressure off of restaurants.

So. thereby like creating business value in exchange for the donation that the restaurants were making. Um, this doesn't directly answer your question, but just the main thing I think about when it comes to like making business do good is like wanting to actually create business value. And then as a, as an intentional by product, As opposed to like ask for a handout.

That's how I think about social, social enterprise.

[00:40:07] Nikki La Croce: It's interesting to kind of recognize where there are opportunities that we don't always see them. Um, and I think sometimes what can feel really challenging as people who are entrepreneurial is like, you want to do something that's impactful. And you're also trying not to just like piggyback on what everybody else is doing.

Um, and it can feel a little uninspired when you feel like, okay, like, well, I have this idea and you're like, oh, well, somebody is already doing it or it doesn't, here are the reasons it won't work. So how do you stay, I guess, like motivated or focused in pursuit of like a business goal that you have? In terms of building a new business when you're hitting speed bumps or roadblocks along the way.

[00:40:52] Andrew Hall: About kind of individuality, we kind of accepted a few years and to running businesses, like there's not really any new ideas. Like, you might have some new combination of things, but it's always going to be building off the backs of other creativity that happened before you. To take the extreme example, like you look at what Ryan Holiday is doing with, uh, stoicism, like a lot of the same things we wrestle with every day, you can find like quotes, words or words for what people were experiencing 2000 years ago.

Right. And then, yeah, more modern day in business, like starting no story lost. Of course. Now, like. Five years into it, as we've just stayed out in the world longer, I have a list of like 15 companies doing the same thing in different ways. So we're unique in our own way. And we sit in a certain place in the market, but in a world this big, you're just not going to have something that's completely unique to you.

And I think that's okay. And you can make it your own unique way within, uh, the way that you want to run your business. Um, and then what was your other question? Just kind of around like. They motivated during bumps and roadblocks and stuff.

[00:42:00] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, I think, well, I, I want to comment real quick, um, sort of on what you just said.

And I think that's a really good point too. It's sort of the, um, you know, the sincerest form of flattery is, is taking the, the idea, um, and establishing maybe your own spin on it. Obviously the hope is that you're not like straight up stealing things from people, I guess. Um, and, and trying to replicate it entirely, but I feel like There is something to be said for how that relates to the conversation that we were having earlier on the Venn diagram too, is like, yeah, there might be, I almost feel like it's, if there's a desired outcome that you're working back from, like you want to help people share their stories and like solidify their family's legacy.

If that's the same desired outcome that another business has, your approach is going to be the thing that differentiates that. And it sounds like what you're able to do, um, Given what you've shared is say, okay, well, what is it about how we think about this, how we're approaching it that can solidify our place, not just in the market, but there's a lot of psychology that goes into the reason people are going to choose one of those businesses over the other.

And when it comes to family and something like No Story Lost, I imagine, because I'm thinking about if I'm a consumer of this, if I'm vetting different companies, I'm going like, well, which one makes me feel better? The best, like which one makes me feel like this is most connected to how I would want it to be represented or whatever.

And so I think that, that it's helpful to kind of consider that piece of your book with, um, aligned to how you consider what the potential is, even in a market that might feel saturated with things that could be competition.

[00:43:41] Andrew Hall: Yeah, I agree. It goes to like the intersections thing we talked about. And also just like the fact that businesses are often, they become a reflection of the founder's values and who the founder is.

So like, I think someone who is insightful could look at my business and look at me and say, like, Oh, I see how it's become you. This style of this business through who you are as a person. And I think that manifests itself in every company for good and for bad, like the values will often become a reflection of the founder's values, which is so interesting.

And then I also really liked this perspective and we use this. I'd say we use it more so in hiring. So with Mealshare and No Story Lost, one hack that we found for hiring and hiring great people who fit us really well is we would write job descriptions that were quite out there and different. They're not going to be generic boilerplate job postings.

We want 95 percent of people who read it to be like, ah, Not for me. And 5 percent of people who read it to be like, Holy smokes, did they write, did they follow me? And they know who I am. And they wrote this for me. Like, this is the perfect job for me. I really want to get this job. And then you don't get 500 applicants.

You get like 100 applicants who are so into it and really want the job. And that has helped. bring people into the company who naturally set all the values and the style of the business. You don't even have to tell them the values because you've selected for them by and making that really interesting and different job description.

[00:45:11] Nikki La Croce: I love that you mentioned that too, Andrew, because I feel like it is really important. I mean, I worked in HR tech for a long time. So like the actual application process, what you're trying to do to weed people out, it's like the best thing that you can do is get people to self select out. because they don't feel like it's right.

And I think that when you consider like the personality of your business and how your brand shows to people that when, and of course this is contingent on the fact that like, that is also truly a representation of your business, of your values, et cetera. Like, I do think there are some companies out there that'll say the things, try to get you in the door and that's like bait and switch.

No questions asked. And it's, I think for people really important. Especially now, because there are so many more opportunities for people to work independently, that it needs to be compelling and you need to feel emotionally connected to what a business is doing. And I'll say that with the caveat of when you have the choice, because I know there are plenty of people who don't have the, the, um, circumstances that allow them to be as specific about what, what they're looking for or maybe what they're qualified for.

I think one of the things that you're saying in that statement around how you, um, solicit applicants and how you're showing up in your values and looking for people to join your business. Um, do you feel like part of what helps motivate you to is like the connection that you have with people in your business and like the collaboration and how you get to build that together?

Because for me, I'm giving the example of. what I said about the podcast earlier, it took me, I mean, I've been doing this for about five years, but like full time for a year almost. And what I've been realizing the last few months is that I'm so used to being in a collaborative environment that when I'm not, I'm like, I'm motivated, but I don't feel like I have the same momentum or maybe like consistency with my drive that I do when I have like other people sort of buzzing around and contributing as well.

[00:47:13] Andrew Hall: Yeah, for sure. Um, I've been super lucky to have my co founder who I mentioned. Um, so we were friends from the time we were two years old with that same family, um, and grew up kind of best friends. And you hear all the nightmare stories about doing business with family or with friends. And we've just been so lucky that we know each other so well, trust each other and work well together to still have.

Like a fantastic working relationship this far into running businesses together. Um, and I think that has been so big for, uh, increasing the highs and excitement when things go well and celebrating together and also muting the downtime. So we found so many times early in both businesses when you're in that struggle that like when one of us would be having a down day, so happened that the other person would be like, no, we totally got this and you just like oppose each other a lot of the time.

Yeah. It wouldn't be too often that we'd both be kind of feeling bummed about it at the same time. Um, so I do say as well that like, I do think it's better to work alone than with a bad fit co founder. And then obviously best cases, if you have one or more really good fit founders or co founders, um, that's been the biggest thing I think for me and like the motivation and to your point, like, the momentum, I guess.

It can be tough when you're just like at your laptop alone for the 37th hour of the week to like keep pressing. But if you're like in the same room with some other people and being able to do that, that culture stuff, that's so helpful. And it's interesting because I've worked from home just myself here for like 10 years.

And I really like that. Um, and I get kind of my social battery elsewhere. Um, but I can see definitely why for a lot of people, like working from home alone is not the ideal case.

[00:49:02] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, I will. And it's funny because like I've worked from home for many years now, but in collaborative in work environments.

So as somebody who was in tech for so long, I was a product manager. So I was always working with like designers and engineers. And so there was just the function of my job was collaboration, right? Like you're the middle person for everybody, stakeholders, leaders, like you're just sort of the epicenter of things that need to happen.

And I found that it. It's funny because my wife is an entrepreneur. She's had her own business for, I think, 13 years now. And prior to that, I had a business as well, but, um, she's gotten really used to working independently. She hired an employee, I think maybe almost two years ago now, and was really hesitant because she was so used to working alone.

And I'm like, you got to, I'm like, you got to think about what it's like to collaborate with people. And she's like, I'm fine being in like my Heidi hole and just like doing what I need to do and not, not involving anybody. Um, And then I'm realizing, like, I'm coaching her on how, like, here are things to think about because you haven't had to collaborate or brainstorm with certain people, like, open up what you're thinking to your employee.

Meanwhile, I'm over here now. I've transitioned from something that's hyper collaborative to being, like, very independent and being, like, I am telling you what I need to hear for myself, which is even if you're doing work that's independent, sometimes it's good to go bounce things off of people and like have a dialogue going.

So you feel more energized around it too. And I feel like that's where, when you, to your point, like having a good co founder and she and I were working on a lot of stuff together. It's so helpful when you're feeling maybe a little defeated or, or disconnected that you have somebody there that can kind of bring you back to a sense of, we've got this, or let's troubleshoot this together.

And I'd say the best case scenario is you're both up at the same time. Um, the second best case is that when one of you is down, the other one's up. And, um, hopefully there's very few scenarios where both of you aren't feeling, feeling good. But I do think even in those moments, there's an opportunity to sort of like.

Sit with that for a second and like re, re ground yourself in like, where is that coming from? And like, how can you move forward from that too?

[00:51:07] Andrew Hall: Yeah, yeah. And what is your like purpose for being in the business you're in? And if you don't have a good fit there, you don't have that, like, bakes to hold you up when you're at your lowest, right?

Like if you have started something or work for a company that you really identify with the core purpose of, then you kind of have that floor to catch you to be like, okay, I had a really shitty day today. We took a loss on this and this didn't work out. Oh, but at the end of the day, like we've said another thousand kids today that always helped hold us up a little bit.

Uh, versus like if you're building widgets or whatever, and you just don't really care, then those low days are also going to be lower.

[00:51:48] Nikki La Croce: That's correct. And I, and I think you touch on something, you know, as we're kind of rounding out the conversation here, something that I think feels really important. And you emphasize this in your book and in the conversations that we've had around really following your purpose and, and understanding that.

And I think that, you know, what you just said really speaks to me because I was in a position for so long where I was really lacking purpose. And I felt really just like, I'm doing what I need to do, but I don't really care. And. Something that you had written in your book, um, let's see if I quoted it or not before we, um, you, you had made a comment that I like being fairly good at a lot of things, and I find it difficult to obsess about something and dive really deep into it.

And there's a quote from a coach of mine that, um, has come up a lot recently, which is when I was playing soccer in high school, um, he said to me, you're great because you're athletic. You'd be the best if you cared. And I'm realizing that like, that is how I showed up in my work life for a really long time, because I was like, I'm good enough when I'm doing 70 percent and other people are doing 100%.

So like, I'm not going to give 100 percent because this is fine. And it's, I still take pride in my work. So it wasn't like I'm like, Okay. putting out shitty things, but it was more a sense of why emotionally invest if I don't feel connected to it. And I think that like, when you go out on your own, and you're like, I'm, I have a vision for myself, I have a desire, and I feel like I want to execute on my purpose, and I want to realize my potential.

There is a lot more ownership that you have to take of that. And I was literally in therapy last week or the week before being like, I think I'm starting to recognize why I feel stuck in my entrepreneurial journey is because I've like really only known what it's like to operate at 70. Because I always had somebody else kind of like bringing the paycheck in and being like, you're going to pay me because I'm still doing the work that needs to be done.

It's still being done well enough. Right. And now it's like, yeah, but like you need to get to a place where you want to do it enough that you are like doing everything that you need to do. So you will go at a hundred percent because you care enough to. And it was such a revelation for me that I was like, this doesn't feel like it should be such an epiphany, but I think that when you're in an environment that constantly sort of perpetuates that.

sense of things, that shifting that mindset is really. significant. And I'm curious because it seems like you've pretty much been sort of a lifelong entrepreneur, um, since you got out of school after that year and a half stint. Um, how do you feel in terms of like what you're doing right now and where you want to go in what it means to execute on your purpose?

Do you feel like you're living that out right now? Or do you feel like this is maybe just like one stop on their journey and you're, you're riding the wave?

[00:54:36] Andrew Hall: First of all, I totally resonate with that, like skating by 70 percent thing and the like, what would a hundred percent look like? Like that is still really intriguing to me because I haven't found that like dog on a bone feeling yet where like you just go a hundred and something, which, yeah, which is like a little upsetting if I'm honest.

And that is like something I'm chasing. Um, so I feel like there's an analogy to where it's like, I don't quite know where I want to go exactly to hit that, like. 100 percent my purpose thing. And so the like sailboat analogy is like, let's like go this way for a while and then like switch tack. I don't know the actual terms for sailing head this way a little bit.

And we're like working our way closer. So, you know, going to work and consulting was the first one that was like, okay, that's like 80 degrees off course, but it got me closer. Uh, and then meal share was awesome. Like, Such a good experience. Kind of our first business, a free MBA. We call it like, that's kind of where we learned a ton more about business and did purpose work.

And so as I'm getting closer, like the day to day stuff that I'm doing might look similar, like being at a laptop and working in documents and emails and stuff. And hopefully like, The big purpose stuff we're getting closer in on the cone. And I feel like coaching, like after having looked at my book, you probably see why this is the case, but like, I feel like the times in my career where I felt the most energy, like warm feeling in your chest, like I'm close.

I'm, I'm kind of on it. It's like teaching people things, coaching sports, even, and in coaching. Like life coaching as well. And so I'm not sure that I want to be like a full time coach, but I do feel like the cone is like narrowing and I'm getting closer and closer to purpose. Uh, but I still don't feel, yeah, I definitely don't feel like I haven't figured out and I'm like, Oh yeah, I just do purpose work 40 hours a week.

It's great. Uh, that's still, yeah, that was a dream. And I think it's like, a pretty lofty goal. I think most careers all come with their many things or things that you don't want to deal alongside them. But, uh, yeah, it does feel nice to be, to be getting closer.

[00:56:44] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Well, and I really like that analogy too, in the way that you visualize that, because I feel like it's super relatable and to your point, you know, that, that target can change and it will change over time.

And I feel like things that, feel purposeful and connected for us and inspiring. And like you said, that warm feeling of like, I'm doing something that I know I'm meant to do. Like that can shift from like, you can feel that with something. And then when that thing has run its course, you might not feel that same way.

You can have the gratitude for the fact that it did provide that to you, but maybe you need to move into a different stage of life or a different part of it for yourself. And I feel like there's so much that we can, um, learn from what it was that felt right in those moments that to your point will help direct us on that path towards whatever it is we ultimately end up doing.

And whether, whether you ever get to that place where you're like, this is without a doubt, like the thing that I'm doing forever. Like, I don't know that that needs to be the goal, but I think the pursuit of that with a proper balance of like, Enjoying life and embracing what comes as it comes is really like how you get to a place of more equilibrium and, and happiness overall.

And I feel like you reflected that quite a bit in the book as well. Um, from what I had read in like really establishing, like these are the things that I felt working for me. And these are the areas where I saw opportunities to change and bringing that together, um, with a sense of assurance, but also, um, You know, really acknowledging that it requires a lot of us to commit to ourselves in those ways.

So I'm really grateful that you've shared everything that you've shared. It's been really lovely chatting with you. And, um, I didn't know where the conversation was going to go. I don't think either of us did. And I'm really happy about what we were able to share with each other.

[00:58:37] Andrew Hall: Totally. Yeah, that was, uh, very natural and free flowing.

And it's always fun when it goes that way.

[00:58:44] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, absolutely. And I really appreciate just the sentiment around, um, you know, your experience and wanting to share more with people about your journey, whether that's in a coaching capacity or as a guest on a podcast. So I want to make sure that people know where they can find you, Andrew.

Um, I believe it's NoStoryLost. com, correct? For, for the business side of it. Um, is there anywhere else you want people to find you on social or elsewhere? Sure.

[00:59:09] Andrew Hall: Uh, yeah, I don't, I'm not really public with my stuff kind of personally. So, um, no story lost. com and then on Instagram at no story lost as well.

Uh, but yeah, we're a small company. So if you find me there, you'll also find me personally. Yeah. If there's anything to connect on. Yeah. On the, like, more personal stuff we talked about.

[00:59:31] Nikki La Croce: Amazing. Well, gang, that's all for this episode, and we'll catch you on the flip side. Gang, thanks so much for joining me for this week's episode.

I just appreciate your support, and it means so much to me that you tune in week after week. The best thing that you can do to help spread the word about the podcast is if this episode resonated with you, go ahead and share it with somebody else. And wherever you listen to your podcasts, or you can go ahead and subscribe to my YouTube channel and share it from there.

I also really appreciate it if you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts because that really helps give people a better understanding of what the show's about and what you appreciate about the conversations that we're having.