From Self-Doubt to Self-Worth with Carlo Taormina

[00:00:00] Carlo Taormina: Before I took that one decision to, you know, take the leap of faith of trying again at life. I imagine I struck a match from a matchbook and the tiny flame on it represented the real me. You know, the Carlo who was funny, the Carlo who was ambitious, the Carlo who would get his shirt off your back if you were cold.

And even though it was so small, the real version of me was still living in me down there somewhere. And I just imagined it as a tiny little flame that kind of sat in my gut. And the more I thought about him, it just grew and grew until I kind of felt like a fireball. And, you know, just from that one decision, with one moment that I made one decision, and I took action on that decision, I took a leap of faith, I did something different, and it saved my life.

[00:00:51] Nikki La Croce: Hey gang, I'm really excited to share this week's episode with Carlo Tarormino with you. We just had an amazing conversation that I know will resonate with you. It hit home so deeply for me with regard to how we navigate challenges in our lives, particularly things like depression, anxiety, and self limiting beliefs.

Carlo is a coach and a speaker, but those are just his credentials. He is an empathetic, open and kind human being whose desire is to help others work through the hard moments in their lives to achieve their full potential. He opened up my mind to a lot of different perspectives in this conversation, and I am certain it will do the same for you.

So let's dive in. I'm so glad to be chatting with you again. I feel like it's so easy, uh, to just dive into the real meat of the conversations. And I mean, you know, looking at what you're doing now and, and being, you know, a keynote speaker and coaching and just giving people the motivation that they need, but in a way that is kind.

Um, you know, and also inspirational, I think is a very special talent because I think that I'm definitely not somebody who learns or maybe not even learns, but, uh, engages well with like real tough love. Like I appreciate the emphasis on like needing to get it done and working through it, but there's a delicate balance of, I think.

intensity and intention that we have to allow when you're giving people, um, you know, advice or coaching them in some way. So do you feel like it came naturally to you the way that you approach your speaking and your coaching? I think it does,

[00:02:39] Carlo Taormina: you know, for, I mean, a couple of reasons, you know, when I'm doing a keynote or when I'm coaching a client, you know, it's all very personal to me.

So the way I look at it is like, I'm speaking to myself. It just might be a room of 25 people, a hundred people, a thousand people, or maybe a one on one zoom call, you know? So I always like to approach it with, a good balance of being delicate, but also being the, you know, I won't say drill sergeant, because I don't like that term, but like the tough love guy, the guy who's gonna hold you accountable.

I think that's probably the best term I would use is like the accountability partner is like, yeah, you know, because I remember when I was going through what I was going through, and we're going to get to in a moment, but like, I experienced from my family, from who wanted to help me, The delicate side, and then I experienced the tough love side.

And sometimes the tough love side didn't help me. It's like, you need to get your act together. It's like, if I could, I would. You know what I mean? And yeah, totally. Sometimes that like drill sergeant tone is just not needed. You know, I just I if I were to thrive, it wouldn't be under that, you know, under that umbrella.

I just couldn't do it. So the way I like to look at it is like, how can I help me two, three years ago. And that's the lens I like to look through when I'm doing a keynote, when I'm doing a zoom call, a coaching call. And, you know, I think what helps me a lot is just balancing the two, you know, of being a kid, of being the accountability partner when you need it, you know, getting that wake up call when you need it.

But I think when it all comes from a heart centered place. It's kind of hard to be wrong. You know, you just got to be self aware of how is this person reacting to Montel right now? Is this person like getting really angry because I'm being the accountability partner right now? Okay. How can I tone it down a bit?

How can I still connect with this person and still get progress done? If that makes sense.

[00:04:37] Nikki La Croce: But yeah, I like the way that you referred to it as heart centered too. And I think in particular, considering that it's the delivery as much as it is the message, because if somebody can't receive. The feedback that you're giving or the advice that you're giving, it doesn't matter how right you are or how helpful it could be for them because they're not going to be able to receive it in a way that makes it applicable.

And I feel like that's one of the challenges that coming into adulthood is like a kind of a rude awakening because I think growing up, you know, a lot of times I, I didn't, to be honest, Let's put it this way. Everybody's childhood is different. We're all dealing with like the repercussions of what our parents didn't deal with or how they maybe could have done things a little bit better.

But I think, you know, it's interesting to think about how much are, how much we need to adapt when we're in new settings because the people who we're interacting with aren't necessarily communicating with us. The way that we're used to or even the way that we prefer or is best for us. So I appreciate you acknowledging that.

Like, yes, like I try to be as, you know, delicate as possible, but also like, I'm going to hold you accountable. And I feel like that's, that's the sweet spot in my opinion, because. The people who I am most apt to receive advice from, even when it's hard to hear, are the ones who aren't like yelling it at me, but they're also not the people who are just sort of like airy fairy, like blowing it off, like it'll be fine kind of thing.

I'm like, no, you need somebody to kind of put you in your place a little bit and be like, are you actually happy with your life? Do you actually feel good about the things that are happening? Be honest with yourself. And I think that's the whole, like, if somebody can reflect back to you, what it is that you really need in a way that is.

that you're most susceptible to actually digest and apply, then that's like the best way to find the progress for somebody.

[00:06:29] Carlo Taormina: I agree. And I, I just thought of this as you were speaking, because this is something that I think really helps me and I give it to my clients too. And it's like a, a different perspective.

It's almost like a paradigm shift for when they hear this, when they think of this is, you know, when we, are the person who is not feeling the best, right? We might be having these spells of depression, anxiety, fear, whatever the case may be. And we tend to beat ourselves up a lot. You know, we tend to have this negative tone to ourselves, this negative language to ourselves.

And something I like to use this exercise is If you were to pull out a picture of yourself when you were eight years old, like, would you say those same things to that kid? Probably not, you know? And I like to compare also, if you're trying to help somebody, if your friend is in need, your family member is in need, and you're the one giving advice, right?

You're the, The shoulder that they're crying on. It's like, you're going to be the one who's really helpful, really delicate, trying to be the balance between delicate and the accountability partner, right? You're treating them with love and coming from a heart centered place. But yet, when it comes to ourselves, we don't tend to do that.

It's always like, you're such a mess up, you're such a screw up. Like, if we simply balance it and come from that mind, Of, I'm sorry, that, that perspective of speaking to ourselves as if we're speaking to our eight year old self, I think that's a good, uh, foundation to kind of go off of because you're treating yourself with love.

But at the same time, it's like, okay, buddy, here's what we need to do. You know, let's just get done. You know what I mean? So I think it's tender enough, hard enough.

[00:08:12] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, tender is a really good word for it. Thinking about yourself as an eight year old is something that I find really valuable. I'd never pick sort of an age range, but I've definitely had that consideration of like, okay, well, what I treat myself as a child, this like, this way, would I talk to myself that way?

And the thing that really hit home for me though, is that I also have a six year old niece and a four year old nephew. And in particular, there was something that I was experiencing a few months back. And I was thinking about how, like, what would I say to my niece? I think my therapist may have even prompted me to say that sort of like find compassion for myself in that moment.

And it's like, because it seems so unreasonable, the way that we would speak to ourselves. if we would ever project that onto somebody else. Like if you're not going to speak that unkindly or with so much demand of somebody else, um, to sort of forego how they're feeling or just, you know, navigate things in a way that maybe aren't right for them.

Like you just, you get so much more perspective when you sort of objectify the situation. And then, so you can zoom out, which maybe it's not objectified, objectively view the situation, um, and zoom out so you can really look at like, well, not just what am I saying, and, How can I say it differently, but also like, why do I feel inclined to treat myself this way?

And I think that's part of what, when you and I first spoke, Carlo, was really powerful to me was, you know, you're somebody who from our conversation, and you can elaborate on this, obviously, um, very driven, like very, you know, growth oriented, like pushing yourself to, to the max to really like get the things that you want out of life.

But then reaching a point where it was like, this isn't, This isn't cutting it. Like, I don't, I don't like my life. I don't want to be here. Right. And so can you share a little bit about how, like, you know, obviously we kind of dove in with where, where you are today, but what was it like for you, um, going through your own journey and finding, you know, the place of comfort for yourself to even access these parts that we're discussing now?

[00:10:25] Carlo Taormina: Yeah, so, um, What it was like back then. So this was towards the end of the end of 2020 and the remainder of pretty much 2021 where I just laid in bed every day for a year, you know, contemplating taking my own life, you know, not feeling like myself. I had a lot of living beliefs about myself. I told myself that, you know, I'm a failure.

I'm a loser. I'll never amount to anything. Everything I touch will turn to dust. And, you know, maybe this is just my destiny. I told myself the weirdest things just to justify how I was feeling. You know, I thought to myself, like, maybe in my past life, I was like some really bad person. And now in this life, I'm paying for it.

Or, maybe in this human experience, in one of my previous lives, I experienced bliss, wealth, and riches, and maybe this go around in this human experience I'm doing right now is all about suffering and pain, and this is just what I'm supposed to learn in this go around here. And I would think of anything and everything that would make sense to me at the time to justify those claims, because I did not know what to make of it.

You know, and I have this identity crisis really, because as you mentioned, I'm somebody who was very goal oriented, very ambitious. I consider myself like a high achiever. Like if I'm going to do something, I want to do it right. I want to do it perfect. And that's just me. And I'm always one to not be the best to compete with others.

But to be the best knowing I gave it my all and seeing product is that is the result of that, right? So when I went to this deep depression in 2021, this identity crisis legit told me I was not this identity I held to myself because I told myself, you know, I'm the successful entrepreneur. I'm going to be somebody one day and I'm going to make a bunch of money and I'm going to get the six pack to look really good.

You know what I mean? And that's like everything I thought of. Because I needed, I didn't know this at the time, but subconsciously I needed this need for significance, for self validation, right? I didn't necessarily need the external validation from people. Oh, Carl, you're doing such a good job. Or like, I didn't need people to like, tell me that.

I needed myself to tell me that. So how I, well, my plan was is like, if I can build a business, if I can make a bunch of money, if I can perfect my aesthetic physically, if I can do the impossible, right, what the average person cannot do, or chooses not to do sometimes, if I can do that, then that means I can do anything I set my mind to.

And to me, like, if I got that proof, then that would essentially validate me. So, every day I didn't get that, it was taking a chip away in my identity every day. Like, Oh, today you're not the successful entrepreneur, good looking fit guy. Okay. Then like every day I went down a peg and down a peg to at which point, eventually it kind of got to me.

I felt really burnt out. And I said to myself, like, maybe I'm just not cut out for this. Maybe I'm just not this person, you know, and I didn't know how to react to that. And I created a story in my head saying that I'm just no good. And now being on the other side of it, I realized that what was holding me back so much was just the story I kept telling myself.

The story of saying all these limiting beliefs of like, I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not capable, successful, confident, whatever the case may be, whatever I was dealing with. And I let that story kind of Take the show let it play on a non stop loop and that's what kept me in bed You know, and it was no longer a question of this, but when I was in take my advice and You know, I know this is not part of the question, but to elaborate, you know It was very very dark and I remember one day this was like in October of November October In 2021, where at the time I still live with my family.

And that was another reason for me to feel jazzed on my life. That I was in my twenties thinking I should have been married or have kids by now, have a successful business. And yet I'm depressed, suicidal living with mom and dad. And that's like something that really hurt me. And I remember this one day where I was like, okay, today's the day, like we're going to clock out.

And thinking about it now, it's just insane to me, but you know, my parents are downstairs, mom, dad are downstairs. And I'm in my bedroom at the threshold of like, all right, this is it. We're not going back. And I remember, you know, being this close to doing what I was about to do. And I had the biggest panic attacks ever.

Like I, I just could not do it. I was so fearful and I was so disappointed and angry myself because it was like, I still have to live with this pain, you know, and I didn't want to do it just to say, like, I don't want to live. It's just, I want to live. I used to want this pain. I don't want this anymore. I can't deal with it.

So I thought checking out early was the only option. And I saw no way out. It was hopelessness. Essentially, if I could sum it up in one word, it was hopelessness. So obviously, spoiler alert, I'm here. And I remember, you know, once I found my breakthrough, once I found that lightbulb moment, a light in the tunnel that I like to call it.

It was so surreal. You know, it, it was like this telepathic communication with the universe that says, Carlo, you're not done yet. There's a reason why you didn't do it. There's a reason why you're here. And that moment where I felt like myself again, where I felt like I was the happy guy, the funny guy, the ambitious guy, like all those things I was before.

I felt it back in me again. You know, uh, part of the story, I like to call it my little flame, you know, before I took that one decision to, you know, take the leap of faith of trying again at life, I don't know how I did this. But I imagine I struck a match from a matchbook and the tiny flame on it represented the real me, you know, the Karlo who was funny, the Karlo who's ambitious, the Karlo who would get a shirt off your back if you were cold.

And even though it was so small, the real version of me was still living in me down there somewhere. And I just imagined it as a tiny little flame that kind of sat in my gut. And the more I thought about him, it just grew and grew until I kind of felt like a fireball. And, you know, just from that one decision, with one moment that I made one decision, and I took action on that decision, I took a leap of faith, I did something different, and it saved my life.

And, you know, I'm here today and I'm help, like I'm helping people. I'm trying to help people. I'm trying to become the best version of myself every day, trying to learn and grow and, you know, being a keynote speaker today, I spoke to some kids, you know, um, and I got emotional when I was doing it too.

Because I just want to help people. I don't want anyone to walk that road that I walked through. And if you are walking that road, I at least want that journey to be shorter for you than it was for me. And, you know, I never knew that this was like the thing that was destined for me. And being the person I am now, it's a legit night and day.

I hope I answered the question properly.

[00:18:03] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, no, it's not even about answering a question properly. You, um, spoke perfectly to your experience. I actually like had tears welling up in my eyes when you were describing, um, you know, the striking the match and that like little flame. I actually feel like I'm going to cry about it right now because I relate so deeply to that.

Like, I remember what it felt like to be really lost within myself. Um, when I was in the, Like abusive marriage that I was in. And it's something that like, I wasn't in a place of hopelessness within myself with like the type of depression that you're describing. Um, but I was very alone in my life. And I was, because I was with somebody who was very psychologically abusive.

It was like, I was like whittling down and whittling down and whittling down. And like, it felt like there was nothing left. to the point where I was visiting a friend last week for her birthday and she and her sister, who I'm close with, were both saying to me, it's like, I watched you get smaller and smaller and smaller.

And, but what, and, and, you know, saying it in a loving way where it's like, thankfully, look, you're so vibrant. You're bright again. You're you again, like you said, right. And I think that there's something so beautiful about being able to, after going through something that is so challenging for you as a person to come back and see yourself again, but then.

to also have other people really see that in you too. When you mentioned the like tiny flame, like, but it was still there. Like it was still lit. It hadn't gone out completely. It's like that just like, Oh, I think I can't even, there are no words for me to express to you. Like how like viscerally I feel that because it was like as low as it was, as hard as it got, like there was no, there was no part of me that was like, I'm all gone.

Bye. I think that the challenge that so many of us face is that when there is such a tiny flicker of a flame, like how do you, how do you reignite that? How do you, how do you present yourself again with the opportunity to grow and, and shine more light? And it just is one of the hardest things because the self awareness of feeling the low.

is very powerful to the point where, as you're describing, right, you're like, well, what's the point in being here? Like, why does it matter? What's the difference? And, and it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, some of what you experienced too was like, as you said, justifying, like, well, maybe, maybe it's karmic debt.

Maybe, you know, maybe it's something else that like, I just, I don't see it yet, but, Even in just how you described coming back around to where you are now and like, oh, I meant for something more. I felt that deeply as well. I mean, I literally started my podcast in the throes of what I was dealing with.

And it was my lifeline. Like I say to people, I'm like, it was like a life raft. I didn't know that I was, I, I was on like, and, I think, you know, having a sense of connection to the universe and sort of this, whether you want to call it spirituality or not, that's what I would use to, to define it, or to at least label it, is like this recognition that it feels so big to me because it's within me, but in reality, it's not everything.

And like, it gives you a sense of, you know, There's more than just what I'm feeling right now. Is that sort of how you were able to navigate through it or what was your experience like?

[00:21:30] Carlo Taormina: Yeah, so I mean, when I was in the like, trenches, as I like to call it, I thought how I was feeling was everything and there was nothing outside of that.

You know, because I just wasn't focusing on it. I thought it wasn't real. I didn't believe that anything was possible outside of how I was feeling. But now being on the other side of that, I now know that like, just because of how I was feeling in that current moment, that doesn't dictate how my life is going to turn out.

That doesn't. mean that there are no possibilities outside of that little bubble I was in. I was just literally bubbling myself. I was like making myself claustrophobic within this tight space that I didn't think I could get out of. But now being in the shoes I am in today, it's like, I know that there are so many different options that maybe I don't even see yet, but I know they're out there.

Oh, I love that. If I just take the conscious decision So not only have the faith to know that those things are out there, but how can I get there? How can I think about these different things I don't see yet? What's a question I can ask? Who's something I, who's somebody I can learn from? What's something else I can do to achieve this different thing that I did not think was possible previously?

[00:22:44] Nikki La Croce: Well, I love that you put it that way too, Carlo, because I, I think that what you're saying in so many words is having the open mindedness to believe that. you know, more as possible. To your point, not always the easiest thing to do, especially when you're in a very depressive state. Like I'm not going to sit here and be like, Oh, just think positive.

Like that's not helpful. Um, but I do believe that, you know, what, what you put in is what you get out of something. And when I was really at my lowest, I was consuming like a lot more true crime and like, I like documentaries, but I don't think falling asleep to, you know, a documentary on the civil war. is probably good for your subconscious, you know?

And so it was like, I was creating sort of an environment that allowed me to stay in my discomfort instead of trying to find a way to navigate out of my discomfort. And I feel like part of that is, Functional freeze, right? It's like I'm very uncomfortable with the situation, but I'm so daunted by like how I get out of it that there's just sort of the, I want different, I want better, but I don't know how to get that.

And if you don't have resources available, whether that's things that you're finding online. or support that you have in your life, either online or ideally in person. Like you, you can have a much harder time digging yourself out of those trenches. And I'm curious for you, how much of a role did like the people in your life play in helping you move forward from that moment?

Because for me, like I said, with the podcast, that was massive. Like I didn't even realize all the subconscious things that were happening because of the conversations I was having. But also, like, I was lucky to have a really strong support system who, once I opened up about my struggles, they were there instantly.

The issue is that I didn't open up for a really long time.

[00:24:33] Carlo Taormina: My family was like the best during that time, during that period, is that they just wanted to help. They wanted to do something, you know, but it came to a point where it's like, They were, they felt like they were exhausted out of options because they just didn't know what else to do, what else to try.

And then at that point, I just gave up on myself. You know, I kind of cut off communication with my family because I just didn't want to talk to anybody because I just didn't feel good about myself. I felt Even when you

[00:25:02] Nikki La Croce: were living in the same house? Yeah.

[00:25:04] Carlo Taormina: Yeah. I literally, I called it my cocoon, like my bedroom was my cocoon.

That was like my habitat. That's where I stayed. That was like my, Depression corner, right? And it's like, I didn't want to leave because I was afraid to be seen or talk to my family. I just felt ashamed and embarrassed. And it's silly to say now, but it's like, when I was there, I know it's family, but to me, it's still felt awesome to be in the presence of these people who've sacrificed so much for me.

You know, even before I went through this particular state, it's just, I felt like I did a disservice to my whole family. I felt I was to blame for everything, you know, and I didn't want to harm the peace that they may have been dealing with. Obviously it's going to hard to be peaceful when, you know, your son, your brother is depressed, but it's like, you know, I didn't want to cause more problems.

[00:26:03] Nikki La Croce: Would you say you felt like a burden if you were to like, need more?

[00:26:06] Carlo Taormina: Yeah, absolutely. I did feel like a burden. I felt like a nuisance. And I said to myself, like,

I wanted it to be from a heart centered place, but at that point, it was almost like a double edged sword because it's like, okay, one way I'm not talking to anybody and I'm not continuously spewing my guts of expressing how negative I feel, how I don't feel like I should live anymore. And I want them, I want to protect their peace and their peace of mind.

I don't want to end with my story, my

[00:26:39] Nikki La Croce: drama, so to speak. I think protecting their peace is, sorry to interject, but I think that's a really beautiful way of putting it because I understand that feeling of like wanting to protect their peace. So like, there's the feeling of being burdensome where you're like, I don't want to unload on you and feel like you have to carry this.

But the reason I don't want to do that is because it's not yours to carry. Right. But at the same time, there's, it's like, there's a very specific place you have to be when you're ready to accept the support and the help. So until you're in that place and you recognize that like people are willingly there for you, you're going to keep feeling like you're, you're carrying that weight and you don't want to really press that onto somebody else.

So I thank you for phrasing it that way because I think that's really relatable.

[00:27:27] Carlo Taormina: Of course. And you know, the other side of it is like, okay, well, if I, Keep telling you know my family this stuff and just keep spewing my dust like okay I'm hurting them, but it's like I'm not getting better. I'm moving the needles forward, you know, so hmm I didn't know what decision to make so at the day I just made the decision to let let me just cut off all communication But even when I did that, though, like my family was still there.

Like I did not eat, you know? And I know that there is a dynamic between people who experienced severe depression is like, well, either like bingey and just eat their emotions, you know, or they will lose all appetite. I was somebody who just lost my appetite. I just did not care. And I lost 13 pounds. You know, I, I'm not a big guy, you know, I'm pretty thin, but like, imagine me, 13 pounds lighter, I look like my lean right, my ring light tripod stick over here in front of me.

It's like this thin. And my family was just there for me. Like my poor mother and my dad, like knocks on my bedroom door and bring me a plate and say, do you mean anything? I do anything. And I like, sometimes I just wouldn't say anything. Cause like, I couldn't get words out because I didn't want to say, I didn't want to say anything.

It's like, I thought it was a poison what came out of here. You know, I don't want to harm them with that. You know, sometimes I'll say just, thanks or I'll mumble a word or two. And that was it. Sometimes I might eat what was on the plate. Sometimes I'll just let it stay there. And then my mom and her dad, again, will knock on the door, bringing dinner.

And that plate from lunch is still there. And they just get really disappointed. And, you know, from their perspective, I can only imagine what it felt like, because obviously I'm not in their shoes, but it's like, My son is dealing with this. My brother is dealing with this. And I can't do anything about it.

And nothing is working. It's like, I don't have the power. I don't have what it takes. You know, what else can I do? And then they might have this feeling of hopelessness. We're like, how are we going to get this guy better? You know, and it's like, they're exhausting all of their options. So I can only imagine, you know what they were going through.

Um, but without them, without that support system, even when I didn't want it, Like I definitely needed it, you know, and it was crucial if I didn't have that. And they just said, okay, screw you. You're moving out. I want this. Maybe I probably would have made it a whole year feeling like that. Maybe it would have been much less and I may have clocked out earlier.

I just don't know. But I do, I'm eternally grateful for my family, for my support system. that always had me no matter what, even when I didn't talk to them, even when, you know, I cut everything out, they were still there, you know, so I give them a lot of credit.

[00:30:18] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your vulnerability with that too.

And the recognition of what that experience is like for the people in your close circle. I know, um, one of the biggest things for me when I was, It was challenging because I was hiding a lot of like what was going on in my relationship So like the fact that I was depressed was like not even really like part of the conversation for a good chunk of it It was like first I have to explain to you what's going on and then I can establish like this is how I've been feeling but it was so It was challenging because with what limited information that they had they couldn't do very much.

And I think like, while it's again, none of it's a one to one, our journey is with this type of personal challenge. It's, it's never the same for anybody. But I think the relatability definitely comes into play where it's like, I feel hopeless and helpless in my own life. And when somebody is, you know, extending their hand and saying, Hey, what can I do for you?

And you can't. you know, offer them a way to help because you don't even know what you need. It feels like you're sort of, I don't want to say punishing them, um, cause that's not really the right word, but it's like you're, you're creating, I think to your point, like, um, this sense of, well, Now what is happening in my life is rippling into their life and then more guilt and shame comes into play.

And when I left, my ex was like, right. My mom, I'm, my parents knew I had left and I was living with my sister for a little bit and they were coming to the realization of how significant everything was. And my mom passed away like in that time span. And it was like, so now it's like trying to navigate this.

what it was already like a substantial depression and very anxiety inducing situation in my life with this. really intense grief that was extremely challenging for all of us. And it's like, so to be in a state where you're already really low, your support system's there for you, you lose like a core part of your support system.

It's like your entire world is in like shambles. And I say all of this not to like direct the attention to my story, but to make the point that in the moments, even when you need support and you see, you know, okay, my family's giving this to me and they're there and they're offering it. Well, now there's this huge wrench that's sort of thrown into.

Not just their ability to help me heal, but for like, they now need support and I'm in this low state. So I want to come back and I want to support you. And so I think there's something really beautiful about like the fact that even in those hard moments, you can show up for each other because that's what you do when you really care and love somebody unconditionally.

But it doesn't make it easier to either be witness to that for somebody or to offer the help and not be able to see them receive it or apply it. And it sounds like your family was very understanding throughout the process as much as they could be. What I was wondering was, I'm somebody who I keep like a variety of friends, um, varying degrees of closeness, depending on the moment in my life, I would say, uh, you're a fairly outgoing guy.

I'm not sure what your friendship circle is like, but did you feel like you iced out like your friends? Um, did you lose friends in the process of sort of like going down this path or have to re establish friendships once you, once you came out on the other side?

[00:33:45] Carlo Taormina: Yeah. So it's really funny as, um, I was actually thinking about this in the last couple of days.

of how energetic I am, how outgoing I feel, I think I am, you know, and how personable and extroverted, you know, I, I just love, love popular people. I have a very small circle, like aside from family, because growing up, you know, I had my brother and sister, you know, that's like, those are my parents, you know, I hung out with them all the time.

And then we worked in the family business, you know, so we were around each other all the time. And like, when we wanted to have fun, go out to the movies, I was with my family. My brother and sister all the time. And then eventually my brother got married and my sister got married. Then I have more brothers and sisters.

It's like, that was my click. And you know, I do have like of my friend group. I have three friends, like my, my OG friends, you know, um, the people I would invite to my wedding, like be my groomsmen, you know, for the most part, our communication was pretty good. You know, we wouldn't talk to each other every day.

But like every once in a while, it's like, Hey, let's go and see a movie. Let's, let's just text. Let's just have fun. Let's just talk to each other on the phone. But I stopped that communication too. And they didn't know what was going on. I don't know if maybe like some of my family told them by my back. I have no idea.

So let's say, I don't know, but I just stopped talking to them. And like every once in a while I get a text like, Hey, I haven't heard from you. And I just might send them real quick text back saying, yeah, I was super busy. And then that would be that.

[00:35:16] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, just kind of avoid it.

[00:35:17] Carlo Taormina: Exactly. That's literally what I did.

And then when I came out on the other side, you know, being the Holly Jolly Carlo that I am today is like, I texted them all individually. I said, Hey, you know, I'm sorry. I haven't been there. I'm sorry. I haven't been responsible. I'm sorry. I haven't been communicating with you. I was dealing with X, Y, and Z, you know, um, and some of these conversations I had in person, which is difficult to do, you know, and they'll be like, Hey, I understand.

You know, but hey, we're here for you. And like, that was something that was really nice to do, but knowing that there's still lifelong friends, you know, these relationships haven't been cut off. Like bridges have not been burned. They've just got strongly reinforced, you know, and like, these are the guys that I would put in my wedding party, you know, I'm going to put my wedding party, you know, and, um, but yeah, like it's so strange.

Now that I think about it like how they must have felt again like now I'm just I always like to think about like the other perspective because that's just how I operate right now it's like what must have been going through their minds you know what's going on with Carlo and all these things but you know I'm really glad that I had those guys and just my family in general and you know.

Things are just great. You know, uh, we get, like I said, the bridge cannot burn and I'm blessed and grateful for that.

[00:36:40] Nikki La Croce: Well, I think that that's a testament to, to the friendship and the strength of it to begin with. And I love the, you've given so many really great visual analogies, like just reinforcing the bridge.

And I really feel like. When you are going through something that is extremely trying, I, the people who are there for you in your life for the long haul, they might not understand what you're going through. They might not be able to support you in the way that you need or even know that you need the support at the time.

But I think what you describe in like coming back to them and being able to be like, Hey, I need to express to you, like, I couldn't do this before, but I need to express this to you now and having them receive that and then, you know, offer the support in that moment, I feel is really powerful and reassuring, you know, that you are surrounding yourself with the right people.

And I had seen a post the other day from, um, an author, Nora McInerney, and she speaks a lot about grief and she has said, you know, Stop focusing on the people that aren't there for you, the people that don't show up, and like, remember who did show up and a lot of times what can happen is the people you most expect and want to show up are the ones that might not, and then the ones that do show up are the people that you're like, I didn't, Even though that you would have considered this or that you would have wanted to be here for me and that can really extend a lot of opportunity into building, you know, and strengthening a relationship that maybe you hadn't previously, um, given as much energy to, or didn't see as much opportunity to, to have.

to build a better, longer lasting relationship with people. And there's, there's a lot to be said for what, um, hard times will do in terms of like, I don't even want to say like, Maybe shrinking or expanding your circle, I guess. It's really just a matter of like, adapting your circle.

[00:38:37] Carlo Taormina: Essentially.

[00:38:39] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Um, so when you're, you know, obviously you are, I think you referred to yourself as like Holly Jolly.

I, I appreciate that. I like that I get to witness this version of you. It's really, uh, it's really insightful and it's also just like, your energy is great. And I feel that it's, Something that I really love about doing this is that when you can, like, really kind of sense somebody through a screen, even though it's, you know, we're thousands of miles away and we haven't met in person, like, you're very much, I think, so vulnerable and real about your experience that there's no doubt in my mind that you are who you are and going through the things that you've gone through are, for better or for worse, part of what make you, you.

What would you say is, uh, like, What would you say? How do you feel? Sorry, I'm trying to like, phrase my question here. Um, how does it feel to look at where you are now, in comparison to where you were, not necessarily in like the personal growth aspect of it, um, in like, this is what I was doing before. And this is, you know, how I'm achieving my goals now.

But like, From an emotional perspective, do you feel like a lot more emotionally aware because you went through this experience or were you always sort of like in touch with your emotions prior?

[00:40:01] Carlo Taormina: I used to think I was super self aware, super in tune. And honestly, maybe I was, maybe I was because I've always been involved in personal development, you know, maybe I was pretty alert of how I was feeling, stuff like that.

But I think now I've just grown so much. I feel like I have so much self awareness and not to toot my own horn, but I just think I've made a lot of progress with that. And something that really bugged me back then was like, again, that I did anything like, Oh, maybe I'm not super self aware. Maybe I'm not smart.

Maybe I'm not, you know, this wise man. That was another thing that brought me down. But like now coming out, coming out of it on the other side, I, you know, accept a lot more things. And I'm not saying like, I accept the crap. It's like, if something were to happen, I still much more emotionally intelligent. I have this, I don't call it sixth sense.

But like, if something were to happen today, something unfortunate, I feel like I'm in a much better position to handle it, you know, and find a way around it, find a new solution or find out how is this serving me? Versus, Oh, this is something that's happening to me. And I am the receiver of this. Now, anytime that something happens, it's like, how can I use this to my benefit?

How, and how is this going to serve me and my ultimate human experience? My purpose, like. How is this helping me right now? And coming from this side of thinking of why is this good, I feel like this is another level of emotional intelligence and self awareness that I didn't have before. You know, and again, another thing to add to that is I needed to experience failure because emotionally that was something that I feared the most.

So I never wanted to be someone who failed. I never wanted to be the person who was, you know, on the side of the street begging for change. I never wanted to be the person who, you know, did something he didn't want to do for the rest of his life just to pay the bills. You know, I knew in my heart and my gut I was meant for more, but I was so petrified of failing and falling on my face.

And I didn't realize that I needed to go through this, not only like depression and stuff like, but to feel failure 100 percent and literally get my butt handed to me. I needed that experience. So that way I learned, okay, growth comes after this. Like, when leaves fall off the tree in winter, that means spring, that thing's gonna grow and it's gonna grow twice as large from last year.

And I didn't like, I knew it cognitively, but I didn't feel it. And that, I think, is a big teacher for me, is, one thing to know something, but it's another thing to feel it.

[00:42:55] Nikki La Croce: Oh yeah. Oh God. I had that rude awakening in therapy and I may have talked about this in other episodes, but it's so relevant. I was just having this conversation, um, about feeling like I was an emotionally aware person.

Like, yes, I'm, I understand what my emotions are. And then my therapist being like, yeah, you She was much more professional than I'm about to make it sound, but yeah, you're intellectualizing your emotions. You know what they are and rationally you understand them, but are you sitting with it and giving yourself space to acknowledge what that feels like?

Because if all you do is sit there and say, for example, I feel, I feel ashamed. I have a lot of shame right now. Well, why are you carrying that shame? Well, you don't get to just like pick it apart and be like, well, here's the examples of why I feel that shame. Okay. But you have to establish what the origin of that shame was.

And to establish the origin of the shame requires you to go look at things you don't want to look at. You don't want to look at it. It sucks to look at it. But does it help you to just like shine a light on it and be like, yep, there it is. Yep. It's over there in the corner. It's really uncomfortable. I think about it.

The visual that I get in my head is like holding a flashlight in an attic, looking at like a rat or something and being like, yes, that's there. We need to get rid of it and, and figure out like how to make this better. But no, I'm just going to stand here. There's a rat there. It's there and I'm just going to perpetuate this forever, right?

And it's like, so eventually you have to extract what that emotion is and decide for yourself what to do with it. But it's not easy. And I think so many people mistake what you're describing, that self awareness for actually doing the work. Like self awareness is step one of doing the work. Like you can't do it without knowing, but knowing isn't enough.

And I hate and love that at the same time because I would like for it to be as easy as you just know it and that's it, right? But that's not how it goes.

[00:44:54] Carlo Taormina: It's so funny because, like, the example I like to use is, you know, my parents are smokers, right? And, you know, sometimes I say this to my clients and say, Okay, I don't know if you're a smoker or not, but let's say, John, if you're a smoker and I tell you, Hey, smoking is really bad, it's gonna kill you.

You know, yeah, you know, people get sick from it. They get cancer, they pass away because they had lung cancer or whatnot. But it's like, they know it on a cognitive level. But if I were to help you feel it. in your gut and like really help you feel it internally like oh god this is i'm poisoning myself you will be disgusted by cigarettes

[00:45:30] Nikki La Croce: that's eye opening well my dad was just in the hospital over christmas and he had a real kick in the pants because he and my mom had been lifelong smokers and he had covid and it got really bad and i watched my dad really fucking scared You know, and like to witness somebody who, it's like, you have known for years that this is unhealthy for you, and now you are being forced to confront the reality of it.

You don't like how it feels, but you've been avoiding it. You've known to your point for decades that you shouldn't be doing this, but now you understand why. I love that you gave that analogy because it's so unbelievably relevant. And, and I think it's important because I think especially being in the generation that we're in, I think you're a bit younger than me, but generally speaking, smoking isn't like what it used to be.

Like so many people know how bad it is for you without hesitation, that like, I think about how few people by comparison smoke, like you're out in public, like there's just no way it just doesn't happen the way that it used to. And so it's such a good example to give because you don't think about it in the way of like, if I could describe to you what's happening in your body while you're doing that, like, man, does that shine a different light on it?

Fascinating.

[00:46:52] Carlo Taormina: Another thing I really gathered and again, this is just something I just, I just keep putting it like in my toolbox of just like psychology one on one, right? It's like, yeah, yeah. I understood that people, we all make decisions based on emotion, but we justify it with logic. So it's like, if I wanted to buy a new race car, it's like, okay, objectively, I probably shouldn't buy a new race car just for the heck of it.

But it's like, you know what? I've been working my butt off this year. I've been working so much over time. You know, I deserve this car. And so it's like, yeah, you buy the race car. You're justifying it logically by saying, Oh yeah, I've worked so hard. I deserve this car. But it's like, you're so emotionally attached to it.

And that's something that we all do. You know, if I'm somebody who wanted to lose weight, right. I lost. 10 pounds. It's like, Oh, I worked so hard this week. I deserve to have a slice of cake. Oh, then let me get a beer. Yeah. Then two, then three, then four and five. It's like, we justify our decisions logically, but the reality it's an emotional based decision.

[00:47:57] Nikki La Croce: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's how I ended up with a jet ski. No, that's how I

[00:48:04] Carlo Taormina: ended

[00:48:04] Nikki La Croce: up with

[00:48:05] Carlo Taormina: a

[00:48:06] Nikki La Croce: paddleboard. I was like, I've set my sights on this. I'm getting it. And then I went through the experiences that I described to you earlier. And then I was like, no, I'm absolutely getting it. It's therapy, but I'm also still going to therapy.

Don't worry. Um, yeah, that's, that's interesting. Well, and it's such a good perspective to share with people too, Carlo, because I hope that anybody listening, like, There's, whether it's something small or significant in your life, like really ask yourself, like, what is it that I'm doing to sort of compensate for the emotion that I don't want to feel?

Because you're going to have to feel it eventually. Like that's the unfortunate reality of it in terms of like our resistance. I, this is the thing that I say more than anything. and regular listeners, I'm sorry, but also not because if anything, I just hope I'm reinforcing this to you. Like I would rather be uncomfortable in the short term than like uncomfortable for the rest of my life because I'm unwilling to grow.

[00:49:05] Carlo Taormina: Like

[00:49:07] Nikki La Croce: you can avoid anything for as long as you want, but you sit in the discomfort of that avoidance. And that doesn't help you. Now, I'm by no means a portrait of perfection when it comes to non avoidance, but I think when I have those moments of anxiety or stress or resistance, it does force me to sort of step back and be like, okay, well, why though?

Like what is it that I'm feeling? And is it something that I can kind of easily address if I just like power through and just get rid of that feeling in my stomach that makes me sick thinking about it? What if I just do it? Like really great, benign example, taxes. Okay. Like I hate it. It stresses me out, but I have to do it.

So you might as well. And it's like avoiding it, isn't going to make it better. So just do it sooner than later. So you don't have to sit with the discomfort knowing that you didn't do it. And now there's a deadline. Like we have the option to choose. But a lot of times we choose the thing that keeps us uncomfortable because the minor moment of discomfort it will take to get to the better side is more scary to us than actually sitting in this forever.

And it's like, what a flaw as a human. Like, that's tragic.

[00:50:20] Carlo Taormina: It's amazing now that I'm thinking about it, because like, I like to put these two things together. It's. Suffering is gonna come either way. It's, do you want to suffer right now or do you want to suffer later? But I think the reason why we tend to avoid it so much is because.

Our brains are not designed that way. Our brains literally want to protect us and keep us away from harm. So it's like, they're like, you will

[00:50:44] Nikki La Croce: die.

[00:50:44] Carlo Taormina: Yeah, exactly. But it's like back in the day where we had to fight saber tooth tigers and stuff and like, you know, hunt for our food, find a cave for shelter, you know, bear the elements.

It's like, We don't have those things now. We can order food from our phones. We have air conditioned houses, but it's like our brains are still in that fight or flight response. So now it's like, Oh, you know, I, I want to start this business, but I'm scared. Maybe I'll fail. Ooh. And then you have all these stories coming up about you.

And it's like, That's just your brain trying to keep you safe. So us avoiding these feelings, this anxiety of something we know we should do, but we're not doing it now. It's like, it's not like we're doing it on purpose. It's just, that's just our brains. It's just like, it doesn't want you to feel this way.

But if that's, it is going to happen, whether you do it and face it immediately. Or you sit within the comfort like you were mentioning and then eventually down the road, that comfort can wear out and you're going to be forced to be dealing with the uncomfortable thing you didn't want to deal with in the first place.

So if we can be aware of how our brains operate and realize, okay, it just wants to keep me safe. It's not meant to make me happy. I know that. Now, what's the best decision to make for me right now? What would? You know, Carlo or Nikki five years from now say, if I made a decision and did it now, versus experiencing it five years down the road and suffering from it then, you know?

Yeah. I think if we can distinguish that, then I think we'll be in a much better place.

[00:52:20] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Well, I love that sentiment as well. And It feels sometimes like I, I record these episodes when I need to hear them. I really appreciate that a lot. And we'll, so I'm curious with whether it's the way that you approach this in coaching or just in your own life, feel free to answer, however, makes sense.

But I'm wondering, like, When those moments come up where the resistance is there and we are just, you know, apt to keep ourselves safe based on what our brain thinks we need to do, what, I guess, techniques or thoughts do you have that, like, can help people navigate through that? Because it's very easy to tell people that, like, just, just deal with the discomfort now.

Just deal with it. It's like, just don't have anxiety. You know, it's like we, we oversimplify it. And so I don't want people to think that this is like a, yeah, just, just deal with the suffering now and you'll be fine later. Like the stress and the pain of what we anticipate is real. It's just that getting over the hump, especially on your own, I think can be very challenging.

[00:53:26] Carlo Taormina: Yeah. One thing I do is I know what holds a lot of people back are limiting beliefs. Fear and this hopelessness, this lack of belief that something will get better. And I think it all derives from either a place of fear or a place of lack. So something that I really like to do is I like to call the rocking chair test or technique.

And this is something I learned. And I like to pair it with like another exercise I learned from a book I read, um, by Ben and Hardy. The exercise is if somebody were to close their eyes, and envision that they're this old man or old woman sitting on a rocking chair in their front porch and they're just rocking back and forth and they feel as if they are really in this position and not just thinking it they're feeling it as if they're there and they're rocking back and forth And they're 85 years old and they're reliving their life like playing a highlight reel, but they didn't do anything different.

They just lived life in the fear, the lack of action, no differences, nothing changed. They just lived in this suffering and they couldn't find their way out. And then they lived to be in their 40s. And then in their 50s, and then in their 60s, 70s, and nothing changed. They didn't do anything different. They lived life the exact same way, didn't take action, didn't do anything differently.

And then now they're in their 80s, and they're about to pass, and they're living with this in their whole life, the suffering, feeling this anxiety, the depression, all this stuff. They can't escape it, and they're dealing with it for all these decades. And now it's their funeral and they're in the casket and the casket is going down and I tell them, feel as if you're in this chair, feel as if you're laying in the coffin and the casket is being brought down and all your family and friends are surrounding you and on the gravesite, now they're getting eulogies and they're speaking about you, about who the person you were, who or what do you want them to say about you, what is the thing you want them to say, was this person courageous, Is that who you want to be?

Who you need to be right now? Is this person outgoing, risk taker, ambitious? If all these things you want them to say, why not be those things now? So something I understood is that fear, lack, living beliefs are always going to be here, but how can I overcome these things? I can't fight against it because it's just something that stays attached to me.

I can't pretend it's not there because that doesn't do anything for me. So what if I aligned with his momentum? What if I went along with it for the ride? If he wants to take me left, let me go left. If he wants to take me right, let me go right. Now what does that mean on a technical level? Is, let me use The fear, the limiting beliefs, the lack, to my advantage.

So I let that thought, that vision, kind of light the fire in her main scene that says if I don't do anything different now, I know my reality. I'm going to be an 85 year old man on my rocking chair, who is stuck with this feeling of suffering, of depression, of anxiety, of fear, of all these things. If I don't do anything, that is my reality.

So I'm using the fear of that potential reality to get me going, to get me started, to put me on the path, to be that courageous person I want somebody to tell that I was at my funeral. And I'm becoming the person I know I need to be, so that way I can prevent that from happening. that potential reality from happening.

And that's something I like. Yeah.

[00:57:08] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. So effectively like repurposing your fear so it's more projected into the future and like what this potential outcome could be if you don't do it rather than looking at the fear of rejection or failure that would be in the near term. Yeah, that's really unique. I like that idea.

It definitely gives you perspective. I am thought spiraling on that. I, I, I feel like that's something that I hadn't heard before in terms of sort of like repurposing. You're like, that's going to be here anyway. It's, you're not going to necessarily. Prevent it from happening all the time. Now, I do think, and I imagine you'd probably agree with this, but feel free to let me know if you have different thoughts.

I think part of it too is sort of what I was saying earlier about like kind of what goes in, what comes out is like being mindful, um, you know, having a regular practice of, uh, consuming content that is helpful on your journey, whether that is meditating or, um, you know, doing different types of challenges that motivate you, whatever, like, you know, your cup of tea may be, and I'm sure it can be a variety of things.

I think those pieces can help the limiting beliefs and the lack mindset subside in a lot of ways, but I do think that it can transition very quickly when you're in a feeling of self doubt. Even just like this week, I was feeling like I'm super motivated. I feel really clear on where like this joint venture my wife and I are working on is going, like no question, like this is my purpose.

This is where we're going with it confident. And then yesterday I was like a complete train wreck. And I was like, what the hell? I feel like this is one of those moments where it's like, I started to get in my own head about, well, am I, am I thinking too big about this or have I played too small thus far?

And like, so it's like seeing the potential of what could be then also sort of shed a light on this insecurity that I had and was like, okay, but you don't get to have that if you don't work through this. And I think that's part of the, again, harsh reality of navigating growth is you have to experience some of the lows to allow yourself to progress forward.

And something you had mentioned sort of at the start of the conversation was how going through everything that you went through was, you know, while very sort of destabilizing in the moment, a real opportunity for you to recognize how much growth you needed and, and different types of growth maybe that you needed, which was similar to what I experienced.

Like I couldn't have told you all of the areas in my life where I needed to grow and improve. Without the shitty things happening to me, and I'm not like, yeah, I would do that again. But do I think that I did the best I could with what I had to take something away from it and a positive light on it, um, not through the lens of toxic positivity, but through the lens of this is something that if I experience it and I do nothing with what I've learned, then that doesn't serve me.

But if I allow the pain that I experienced or the stress or anxiety or depression that I experienced to fuel my growth and give me not only new perspective, but share that perspective with other people, such as you're doing, then I can see even more potential in my future and what I can offer the world.

And therefore like what that ripple effect can be for other people. Um, so I, I feel like a strong sense of similarity in like what your experience has been.

[01:00:46] Carlo Taormina: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that. You know, um, all to the point of, you know, what you put in, that's, we're going to get out. And something that I really understood, at least I take to heart, and something that really helps me, and this is what I help my clients with, is like, how can I take each and every single moment from my life, moment from my day, anything, how can I use it?

You know, something that I subscribe to is, life is not happening to me, it's happening for me. Whether I know it or not, something is either working for me or on me, but no matter what, something's always been working. Something is going to help me. So no matter what happens, you know, and I'm not saying that life is always gonna be sunshine and rainbows, because you and I both know that's not true.

[01:01:25] both: Yeah.

[01:01:25] Carlo Taormina: But when something unfortunate happens, how can I just spin this to help me? How can I spin this to learn a lesson, do something, learn something I can do next time? Like what's something I can use from this negative experience to help

[01:01:39] Nikki La Croce: me? Well, I like that you said next time also. Because, because that's the thing, right?

Is like the resilience that you build, and you mentioned this earlier, and I felt like that was the thing, right? Is like, you know, it's like, if you know better, do better. And so if you're going to experience something again, then like, what did that last experience give you that you can bring forward? And it's not as simple as, I'm just going to do it different this time, or I just know now, so it's no worries.

Like everything's smooth sailing and sorry to interject, but I feel like that's part of it is like the resilience is like the core function of you know that you can get through it. And so even if it's not the same situation, come back to the fact that like you get through it.

[01:02:21] Carlo Taormina: Yeah, absolutely. And it's so funny because back then when I was in 2021, when I was just like in battle time, I literally had this conversation with myself.

I was like, if this is a lesson, why can't I learn something from this? And I don't know if maybe I just wasn't ready at the time or maybe I just wasn't open to the different possibilities, but it's like, I was questioning it. I was like, instead of it trying to help me try to learn from it, I was beating myself up, beating myself up even more.

Like, oh, I'm such an idiot. I didn't learn from these mistakes and I'm going to stay in here. And like, that's how my brain was thinking. That's where the direction was heading. And Now I'm just like, okay, what can I do to help me with this situation? How, why is this a good thing? So something else I subscribe to is my belief on beliefs is.

This is gonna sound stupid, but like, I let it think about it, like I let it marinate, and I think about it, and it makes sense to me. It's like, whatever happens to you, what you believe that situation is, what it provides, it's true to you because you believe it. So a belief is a belief because you believe it.

And if you say that, yeah, enough times in your head, it's like, okay, that kind of makes sense. Now, to explain a little bit more is, I understood a belief is simply just a story. I'm telling myself with enough emotion attached to And anytime I come up with a story and there's so much emotion to it, oh, I'm so ugly and then my brain finds evidence, oh, this is why you're ugly, Carlo.

And then there's so much emotion behind these past experiences that may have happened a week ago, a year ago, 10 years ago, but it's so strong. So now with all this emotion put behind this story and that becomes a belief. So what I do now is. If I'm going to overcome a limiting belief, or if I want to find an experience that maybe seems negative, but how can I find something that can serve me from it, I create a story, regardless if it's objectively true or not.

I mean, for the most part, it's subjective because we don't, we all have different perspectives on these things that happen in our lives. How can I, how can I, Switch my opinion on it. How can I create a story? How can I let it serve me? And that's something that I just, I keep practicing every day. And you know, from all these different things I'm doing, it's helping me.

I feel like I'm growing, you know, and that Carlo two years ago, three years ago would have never done this. And he would have stayed in that. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[01:04:53] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Well, I think that's a really Also, I feel like I've said this probably several times now, but I think that's a great perspective. And I, it's, it's a unique way of thinking about it too.

Like you said, you know, it's kind of, kind of going to sound stupid, but I actually think it's pretty profound really is that we, the, one of the biggest challenges I think with self limiting beliefs, as an example, is a lot of that is constructed during a time that like, we don't even have the consciousness and the awareness to understand why.

So part of it is like, is this a belief that I hold now because this is truly what I believe now? Or is this something that is embedded in me that I'm not even quite sure why I believe? And when I was coming out of like the situations I mentioned, believe me the amount of times I was asking myself, like, what do I believe?

Why do I believe it? What do I believe? Why do I believe it? And talking to so many people on this show has also given me such a great deal of perspective and insight because people are so willing to share their experiences like you are and open up and be like, well, this is how life happened for me. And I do, I'm a firm believer that like, the more that you hear other people's stories, the more you gain insight into your own, if you're open minded and willing and wanting to learn and understand that better.

And so, When you made the comment about, you know, kind of being at, at that low point for yourself and being like, I was asking myself the questions, but maybe I wasn't ready to do something with it. I think a lot of times that is the case for most of us. I mean, I just released an episode where the conversation is related to divorce in particular, but it's like, we will tell ourselves like that.

We, we can justify all of it. We can justify all of it because what we're seeking is this desired outcome. I want to stay with the person that I married. Therefore, I will compromise X, Y, Z. I will shift my belief to, to be something that supports this outcome that I want. But in reality, like you're not listening to yourself and you're not giving yourself the space to like truly acknowledge what it is that you're feeling.

And I. I feel like one of the things that I grapple with in society today to like make a meta point is that people look at beliefs as if they're like finite and that like this is the thing that you believe and therefore that is what you will always believe and it's like that is extremely misinformed.

Like black and white. At any point. Pardon me.

[01:07:29] Carlo Taormina: It's like

[01:07:29] Nikki La Croce: black

[01:07:29] Carlo Taormina: and white.

[01:07:30] Nikki La Croce: Yes, like at any point you can decide you believe something different. Now, I hope that it's like based in some semblance of reality, but like reality is also about perspective. So, you know, it's, that's a little bit too philosophical for the throes of the end of a conversation and possibly even an entire podcast.

But I, I feel like there is this, um, There's this really important piece of what you're saying in terms of our accountability to ourselves in recognizing that it's not only like, what am I doing right now? Who am I right now? But who am I in pursuance of what I want? And like, is what I want right now the thing that I truly desire?

Or is it something that I've cultivated as like, an outcome because of the limiting beliefs that I have or the things that I was taught to believe. And there's a lot of deconstruction and examination that we have to do. And to kind of bring it full circle is like, what ends up happening many times is that you hit a rock bottom and you're kind of faced with the reality of what you thought you knew about yourself.

and who you actually want to be. And now you have to reconcile that.

[01:08:45] Carlo Taormina: Yeah. And something to add on top of that, you know, um, is something I understood. And I, this is just my speculation. And I, and I, from what I learned, I consider this truth, but I get people can challenge me on this is like, when we're in these moments of lack of despair, depression, fear, anxiety, you know, uh, fulfillment.

We don't have it. It's like when we have these feelings, it's as if like our spirit, our soul, something in us is telling ourselves like, Hey, this is not meant for you. Like you're meant for so much more. I'm letting you know this. I'm letting you feel these things because this is not the real you, you belong.

So like way up here, I'm letting you know, letting you feel all these things the way, you know, that this is not you. You can. Yeah, I love that. You are better. Like this is like, it's like someone's poking a scar, right? Or a burn that's pretty fresh. It's like, it doesn't feel good, but it's like, I'm letting you know, this is not really for you.

This is not meant for you. And that's something I really think.

[01:09:52] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Well, I feel like that's such a brilliant point and a great way to round out the episode. Carlo, this has been so great. I love your perspective. Your energy, like I said, is just so great. And I feel like what I. gained from this conversation, I hope, is what other listeners gained from this conversation.

It's so impactful to hear somebody share so openly about such a personal topic, um, but it also really exposes the fact that the way that we tell people, like, you're not alone, this is such a, you know, very tangible example of that. Like your story is your unique story, but the message is prolific. And I am so appreciative of you for being here and sharing and opening up to me.

[01:10:45] Carlo Taormina: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I'm so glad that I have a platform and an amazing platform at that, what your show is Nikki, you know, and I'm really grateful. To have this opportunity to share my story, to have a great conversation with you, to have a new friend, you know, cause I'm all about that.

[01:11:00] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, I'm going to make my way into that tiny circle, Carla.

[01:11:05] Carlo Taormina: But in all seriousness, thank you so much though. You really touched my heart, you know, and I don't say that lightly. I don't say that just to. make the show really dramatic. Like it really, really made my day. You know, I thought my day couldn't get better from what happened just now, you know, previously this morning, but it's like, like you really touched me.

And it's like, this is only making my day much better. And I just thank you. And I'm looking forward to what the future holds for both of us.

[01:11:29] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, thank you so much. And I absolutely reflect that sentiment back to you. I truly, um, there are rare occasions where I get very emotional on the show, um, because I've learned to speak very objectively about my own experiences.

And, um, when I hear other people's stories, like I can, you know, reflect on my own life and feel that, but I, I will tell you like, sort of that, like dim little spark, Of a flame that was still in there, just like really hit home . So that's something I'll take away and like really hold onto. So I really appreciate that and I'm glad to know that this will probably be just one of many conversations in the future.

And so for anybody who wants to learn more about Carlo and what he does, can you please tell our listeners where they can find you?

[01:12:14] Carlo Taormina: Of course. You can always hit me up on Instagram. That's where I pretty much, uh, congregate mostly, you know, it's gonna be in the shoutouts probably, but you can find that.

Carlo Taramina underscore life coach. I'd love to connect with you further. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, you know, I will not shy away from a conversation. I'm always here for you. That's what I want to

[01:12:30] Nikki La Croce: do. Amazing. Well, gang, that's all for this episode of. Can I just say, and we'll catch you on the flip side.

Gang, thanks so much for joining me for this week's episode. I just appreciate your support and it means so much to me that you tune in week after week. The best thing that you can do to help spread the word about the podcast is if this episode resonated with you, go ahead and share it with somebody else, wherever you listen to your podcasts, or you can go ahead and subscribe to my YouTube channel and share it from there.

I also really appreciate it if you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts, because that really helps me. Give people a better understanding of what the show's about and what you appreciate about the conversations that we're having.