Reimagining Safety in Our Communities with Matthew Solomon

[00:00:00] Matthew Solomon: I was raised, you know, you know, shut up and do what you need to do. And then my kids, my kids were raised with use your voice, but nobody yet has been like, this is how you listen to somebody to put yourself in their shoes and to get their experience and to have them feel. Heard and understood and valued because when people feel that, when they feel heard, understood and valued, all the stuff in the way, you know, disappears or lessens.

[00:00:30] Matthew Solomon: And then we can really connect. and work together and create partnerships and stuff. But, but people don't feel heard. That's a big issue.

[00:00:43] Nikki La Croce: Hey, gang, this episode, I'm sharing the mic with Matthew Solomon, and he is a director and filmmaker. His recent film, Reimagining Safety, really dives into the depths of policing and law enforcement issues in America and the concept of abolition. This is something that If you said abolition to me in any other capacity, I would immediately go civil war.

[00:01:07] Nikki La Croce: This is what that was about, right? But that's not the case. There are a lot of things that are happening right now that we are not fully aware of or not integrated with because of our life circumstances. And this episode really sheds light on Matthew's experience through the filmmaking process and why he as a cis hetero white male chose to make this film and focusing on the importance of not othering people.

[00:01:33] Nikki La Croce: Focusing on the fact that as communities we can grow more together. If we set aside these preconceived notions that it. one person is better than the other or some religion or some race is better than the other, then we open our world to so much possibility. So my hope for you is that in listening to this episode, you will feel more in touch with your own beliefs and understanding about how you perceive the world.

[00:01:57] Nikki La Croce: And ideally that in some way, small or large, you feel activated to create some sort of change in the world. So let's get started. Matthew, hello. Welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you here.

[00:02:11] Matthew Solomon: Yeah, I'm excited to be here, Nikki.

[00:02:13] Nikki La Croce: Well, when we were first introduced, um, via Podmatch, I was really intrigued by your profile and the fact that you are a filmmaker, a documentary filmmaker, something that I'm very passionate about.

[00:02:28] Nikki La Croce: I went to school for, had not executed on anything really significant. So to see somebody who'd really. put their energy into sharing other people's stories and around a really important topic, your film Reimagining Safety, um, is effectively speaking to the systemic issues that we face, particularly in the U.

[00:02:53] Nikki La Croce: S., but I'm sure, like, the broader proliferation is just sort of, um, you know, an extension of that. How, how did you end up in documentary filmmaking and we'll dive into like how you landed where you did with this film.

[00:03:11] Matthew Solomon: Yeah, how did I end up here? I just ended up here. It was not, um, it was not planned. In fact, you know, I've made scripted films and, uh, that wasn't planned either.

[00:03:23] Matthew Solomon: I mean, honestly, the only thing that was planned was I wanted to be a rock star and I was going to be like a rock star with, you know, long hair and loud guitars or loud bass and tour the world. And I played professionally for like 15 years around LA. Um, where I'm, you know, I'm born and raised in LA, but then, you know, I kind of fell into acting because there were, uh, some agents that would come to our shows and be, and they were like, Oh, we could, you know, get you work.

[00:03:52] Matthew Solomon: And, and so like, I felt like I like work. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, you could be like, and it was when like music videos had big budgets. So I was. The bass player for a Ronan Keating video. He was a, he was a big like singer in the uk and then I was in a, the keyboard player for Anastasia in, in the video.

[00:04:15] Matthew Solomon: Oh, cool. You know, and so I was like, you know, the musician and then that became acting in other things, and then commercials and tv. But that wasn't by design. And then I started writing and directing, which wasn't by design. And, um, and then, you know, documentary, that was one of those things where I had friends who were documentary filmmakers who spent 10 years on a project and were, and like the only conversation was how hard it is, how, how much work it is.

[00:04:49] Matthew Solomon: Going through all the footage. And so I was like, yeah, I'm never going to do that. Why would I do that? Combing through the

[00:04:54] Nikki La Croce: footage is a real, real thing. I had done a little bit for a nonprofit previously, and I was just like, this is to be able to construct the story. And, and map it all out. And it's not like you, you don't, you don't really know it.

[00:05:09] Nikki La Croce: You have a broad sense of what you're trying to do. And then you have to ideally get the clips that you, that you want. But there have been plenty of times when I've worked on stuff where I'm like, I really wish I had that. And I don't have that. Right. So some of it is working with what you've got.

[00:05:25] Matthew Solomon: Totally. And, and, you know, and there were things that came out in the interviews and re imagining safety. I had no idea, but they were. They were deep and they're like, they're a big part of what the audience, you know, really, uh, locks into and grabs, you know, you know, emotionally, um, gets connected to. Um, but yeah, I, I didn't ever want or intend to do documentary, but I, I found myself in a master's in public administration program of all things, and.

[00:06:02] Matthew Solomon: When it came time to do my capstone project, my one of my academic advisors was like, yeah, we know you know how to write a paper, but I know you're a filmmaker. Why don't you do something creative and do a documentary?

[00:06:14] Speaker 3: Yeah,

[00:06:17] Matthew Solomon: totally it was awesome and I would they said it no so nonchalantly that I was like That's a lot of work.

[00:06:24] Matthew Solomon: Yeah Just like I'm not gonna just like film an interview and like here's my you know My thesis like I'm gonna make a movie because that's what I do and and luckily she was like, well, you know Do that go do that. And yeah, I did and you know and like this movie came out of it, which is amazing

[00:06:45] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, so I'm curious.

[00:06:46] Nikki La Croce: Well, first of all, thanks to your um your professor for inclining you to do that, right? Like for, for sort of saying, Hey, take this opportunity and run with it because who knows, right? Um, where, where you'd be. And if we'd even be having this conversation right now, so there's, there's probably not right.

[00:07:05] Nikki La Croce: There's beauty in that and, and sort of the divine timing of it. And, um, I'm curious because you were in your master's in public administration. I know that when we initially spoke, you had mentioned Always sort of having the desire to help people, um, you know, along the way and to care for other people.

[00:07:26] Nikki La Croce: Did you know where you wanted to go with your project, uh, when you started? Or was this the product of some introspection and research that, that bubbled up and then ultimately developed into the film?

[00:07:42] Matthew Solomon: It's little of both and some extra put in. I mean, I've always been social justice minded even before I knew even before that was a thing, you know, growing up in Los Angeles, and I went to very diverse, integrated schools.

[00:07:58] Matthew Solomon: So my friends were everybody. And, you know, I had black friends, LGBTQ plus friends, Asian friends, you know, Muslim friends, I, you know, I'm Jewish. So, you know, my, my friend group has always been everybody, you know, and so I was aware at an early age, how my black friends, for instance, were treated differently than me, not just by police, but if we went to the mall, you know, things like that.

[00:08:26] Matthew Solomon: And so that's always been there. And then. Out of high school, I was going to USC, University of Southern California, in the early nineties when the Rodney King beating happened and the LA riots. And I was a music student, but I was taking sociology classes because I was fascinated with societies and things like that.

[00:08:47] Matthew Solomon: And so we were learning about systemic racism as. It's all playing out. Wow. And so, so it's always kind of been there for me. Um, when the Me Too movement online happened, uh, I was very active on social media, you know, with, cause you know, women, mostly women were posting their stories and then there were men that would push back and try and, well, what about this?

[00:09:13] Matthew Solomon: Or that's not what, or, you know, and things like that. And And then women would be like, wow, you get it. We're exhausted. Please write a book or teach a class or something. So I wrote a book. Um, and, and so it's always kind of been there that, that interest for me. And so when I went into the master's program, um, At that point, I was like, I'm, I'm done with the entertainment business.

[00:09:40] Matthew Solomon: It's not fulfilling. It's not really having an impact. I'm not, you know, I'm not working enough either, but I really, and this is post COVID, like first year after the first year of COVID, it's after George Floyd was murdered and the Black Lives Matter protests and all of that. And so I was like, you know what, I'm a cis hetero white male.

[00:10:00] Matthew Solomon: Uh, I want to be able to use my access and privilege to support. social change, you know, very clearly not be at the front of it cause that's not my place, but to, to, you know, get my foot in the door so I can hold the door open and be like, come on in and pass the mic. And so I didn't know specifically where I was going to go with the master's program.

[00:10:24] Matthew Solomon: I figured it would be politics or government or policy or something like that. But I, it was, it's really the first time that I had no. specific intention of this is getting me to that other than I wanted the information. I wanted to be in a place where I could use my privilege and access and You know, and then, and then this is what, what came out of it, which, which has been doing that, you know, we've had to date, we've had 46 screenings, community screenings, where we screen it in a, you know, in a city, and then there's a panel.

[00:11:02] Matthew Solomon: of local leaders and activists, mental health professionals, politicians, you know, whomever, but local leaders. And so like the film is, you know, creates this space for conversation and communication, which, you know, has impacted some policy decisions in some of the places we've been in. It's incredible. So yeah, so it's, yeah.

[00:11:27] Matthew Solomon: Get, getting my foot in and then passing the mic. You know, so that's, that's, I love

[00:11:32] Nikki La Croce: that analogy that you gave. It was such a good visual. Um, thinking about what it is like to be in your position, as you said, cis hetero white male. Mm-Hmm. . You won the privileged lottery in . Yeah. Right, right. What I think is really incredible about how you approached this was you.

[00:11:55] Nikki La Croce: It sounds like you've always had the empathy for people going through these circumstances, but you also saw this opening where, I, I love that you said it's not your place to be at the forefront of it, which I, I respect. Um, as a, a white female, um, I have plenty of privilege myself. And so I think there are places where I'm like, I, I feel inclined to advocate.

[00:12:23] Nikki La Croce: I want to find the right way to do it so it doesn't feel like I'm inserting myself, um, in a way that demonstrates the privilege instead of supporting other people. And so when you speak about your experience and going through sort of the motions of what am I going to do and what matters to me, I feel like you really touch on this Fact that a lot of people don't grow up with the diversity that you were around.

[00:12:51] Speaker 3: I

[00:12:52] Nikki La Croce: grew up in the suburbs outside of Philadelphia, so it's not that I was necessarily unfamiliar with diversity. My mom's from New York, so I spent time in New York City. Like, I was witness to a lot of diversity, but it wasn't really integrated into my life in a lot of ways. It was like, one of my best friends is mixed race, but it wasn't like, She was raised in like a very white environment, you know, and, and one of the conversations that we've had over the years is it's like this feeling of where do I belong?

[00:13:22] Nikki La Croce: Because I grew up in the suburbs around a bunch of white people. But like when I go out and I hang out with like my sister or in the city with other black people that I feel like I'm not black enough for these people. And I'm not white enough for these people. And like, so. It's just this plight that I can't understand and I really respect you asking yourself the question, how can I be who I am and show up with the knowledge that I have, try to gain more knowledge to be able to use that privilege in a way that helps people who don't necessarily have that privilege.

[00:13:55] Nikki La Croce: Get the mic placed in their hands from the get go.

[00:13:57] Matthew Solomon: Yeah. Thank you. Um, and I, you know, I think, you know, part of the empathy, the foundation of that for me, my, one of my other identifiers is that I'm Jewish. Yeah. And so when I was. Young when I was a kid and going to Hebrew school, you know, to learn about my Jewish heritage and everything.

[00:14:18] Matthew Solomon: Um, you know, my, my parents were school teachers. And so they were always like, Oh yeah, we're, you know, middle class, you know, don't have a lot of money, you know, cause we're school teachers, all of that, you know, and, but the temple that we went to was in Beverly Hills. And so, you know, one of the wealthiest cities in America, in the United States.

[00:14:40] Matthew Solomon: Um, it's also a separate city. So, you know, the kids there all know each other. And I was an outsider. Um, I also loved learning. And they were, they resented being there. So the fact that I was doing well and wanted to like participate and have the answers and stuff, like, so I, you know, we didn't call it bullying back then, but I got bullied constantly.

[00:15:06] Matthew Solomon: Um, and I was othered constantly and it was really grueling from, second grade through seventh grade. So, you know, five years and nobody could really do anything, you know, uh, without just taking me out and, you know, putting me somewhere else. But, and, and, you know, we didn't have the, you know, back then this was the, the eighties.

[00:15:30] Matthew Solomon: It wasn't like, it wasn't like, Oh, I'm just going to take my kid out of school and put them in another school. Like you just, you just had like, we had to survive. Right. So, but that, that also. That experience really shaped me not wanting other people to feel othered and outcast and, you know, degraded for, you know, not being, you know, like, part of the group and, and all of that and, and I, like, I very, like, I have memories.

[00:16:01] Matthew Solomon: of that time when, you know, if like another kid was being bullied, I would try and, you know, be friends with them so that they have somebody, you know, so all of that. And then, and then, you know, that also shaped the social justice part because I was noticing hypocrisy In religion, right? And, you know, it's like, oh, we're supposed to love each other and take care of each other and be welcoming.

[00:16:26] Matthew Solomon: But it was always like, we're right and you're wrong. Like whatever religion.

[00:16:30] Nikki La Croce: We do all of those things, but not with these people. And you're like, that's not how that works. Like that doesn't make sense to me.

[00:16:36] Matthew Solomon: Yeah. So that, and then so, so like the religious part, there was hypocrisy that I was trying to make sense of.

[00:16:43] Matthew Solomon: Cause. You know, it, we grow up with binaries like, oh, there's good and there's bad. There's right and there's wrong. So there has to be a truth as to which religion is right or which God is right. You know, we try to figure that out. And then in society, like, you know, in regular school, it was, you know, there was racism until MLK and now we're all equal.

[00:17:08] Matthew Solomon: But then that wasn't, that wasn't, What I, my friends were experiencing and it wasn't what was really playing out, you know, I love that you called fit into it.

[00:17:18] Nikki La Croce: Sorry. I love that you called that out too, because I think that there's a really important discussion within that comment about, you know, racism existed and then MLK Came into play and then racism was no more like as a person who was raised in a white suburban town That was the perception and I feel extremely Ignorant for that as an adult looking back on it and being like why would I ever think that and it's like because You're in this bubble Based on what is around you and at the time because I grew up in the 90s like we didn't have the exposure So there's this part of me that I think in in the generations in which we grew up I don't want to say that it's forgivable in the sense that like You can always kind of explore and try to learn more, but it wasn't in the information wasn't as pervasive.

[00:18:18] Nikki La Croce: Like we weren't able to see it as clearly. And so if you weren't very intentional about going out and finding it, you weren't going to find it. And so when you speak to that, it's like thinking about the black lives matter protests and George Floyd and, and that really eruption of social justice that had had to happen really shined a light on.

[00:18:42] Nikki La Croce: My own ignorance and needing to be accountable to that. And I think a lot of people were facing that same feeling if they were coming from that place of empathy, coming from a place that was honestly also really confused. Because it was a little bit of cognitive dissonance where you're like, wait a second, like this is what's happening to people.

[00:19:04] Nikki La Croce: And it was a really interesting moment for me in doing the podcast too, because I also started looking at like, okay, am I being intentional about like making sure that it's not just, you know, diversity of thought? Because I've operated under the mindset of like, diversity of thought is, is the ultimate diversity really, if, if you strip away everything else, right?

[00:19:28] Nikki La Croce: But if you don't have people who have other life experiences through the maybe more superficial diversities, then you are really narrowing the scope of what topics you can touch on. And so that's part of what really compelled me. Toward the work that you're doing because with the film you touch on or not you touch on you the film is Expressing, you know these systemic issues with law enforcement and and policing That I feel like so many of us could turn a blind eye to because it doesn't affect us But when you refer to it, it's abolitionism.

[00:20:07] Nikki La Croce: Am I correct in that?

[00:20:09] Matthew Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. Abolition.

[00:20:10] Nikki La Croce: And so when I think about abolition, and I walked away from our first conversation thinking about this and being like, okay, I need to reorient myself. When I think of abolition, I'm like, it is the 1800s and it is the civil war, right? Like there's, there's a very specific textbook meaning to it.

[00:20:28] Nikki La Croce: And I'd like to, um, you know, as part of our conversation in exploring your story, talk a little bit about like what abolition is in the context of what you're doing and, and the broader message and a bit, um, about your experience in identifying, you know, what, what you came to terms with as you were making the film about this.

[00:20:52] Matthew Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I'll preface this by saying that I'm, I'm, I consider myself very new to abolition. Um, you know, this is something that developed through my coursework, through the process of making the film, through this last year of doing screenings across the country and being in community with abolitionists.

[00:21:13] Matthew Solomon: Because yeah, same thing. It was like, Oh, you know, John Brown, the 1800s, right? Like that's, that's how it's. Especially in school. It's like, Oh, the abolitionist. And like, that was it.

[00:21:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:21:25] Matthew Solomon: Um, and so for me, when I was in the master's program, it was Okay, I get that policing and incarceration cause a lot of harm and don't work in terms of keeping everybody safe.

[00:21:40] Matthew Solomon: And it works for the reason that they were designed to work. But, but, you know, if we're really talking about, like, if we care about each other and all of that, like, no, we need something else. And then, so then my question was, well, what's that something else? And You know, so Maryam Kaba, who wrote, We Do This Till We Free Us.

[00:22:00] Matthew Solomon: She's a very well known abolitionist writer, scholar. Um, in, in that book, she talks about, and this comes up in the film also, like we, we can't get rid of police in prisons tomorrow. You know, we're not equipped for that. We don't know how to. resolve conflict. Part of my background is I work in conflict resolution.

[00:22:21] Matthew Solomon: I saw that and I was really excited

[00:22:23] Nikki La Croce: to see that. And I was like, this makes a lot more sense holistically looking at your background too, because that's something that I don't think a lot of people even necessarily know. That like people actually do professionally or academically is dive into conflict resolution and I had a guest on who spoke to that and I was like, I didn't even know this was a thing that people do.

[00:22:44] Nikki La Croce: So to be able to bring that into the work you're doing is really incredible.

[00:22:48] Matthew Solomon: Yeah. I mean, it's all interwoven cause it's, you know, it's really like, you know, like I was raised, you know, You know, shut up and do what you need to do. And then my kids, my kids were raised with use your voice, but nobody yet has been like, this is how you listen to somebody to put yourself in their shoes and to get their experience and to have them feel heard and understood and valued.

[00:23:13] Matthew Solomon: Because when you, when people feel that, when they feel heard, understood and valued all the stuff in the way, you know, disappears or lessons. And then we can really connect. And work together and create partnerships and stuff, but people don't feel heard, like that's a big,

[00:23:33] Nikki La Croce: uh, issue. There's an element of safety I feel is required to be able to even trust that when you speak you will be heard.

[00:23:40] Nikki La Croce: And I feel a lot of people struggle with that. You know, why would I even say anything if it's not going to make a difference, which I feel like is a big part of, in seeing other interviews that you had done, is a big part of what you're trying to also help people understand through the film.

[00:23:59] Matthew Solomon: Yeah, yeah, because when we don't Speak up and I've had this in like personal relationships and professional relationships, you know, where it's like, oh, yeah What what difference does it make if I say anything and then that?

[00:24:13] Matthew Solomon: resentment builds and then there's that division that gets wider and wider and and Then it gets to the point where there's not really a way to bridge that. Mm hmm, you know, definitely Yeah, and so, you know, getting back to your question about abolition, you know, regarding police and prisons, Maryam Kaba talks about making police obsolete.

[00:24:37] Matthew Solomon: So we do enough of our own work. We create our own systems. We stop calling the police. We start, um, you know, leaning on community responders or, or, you know, things like that to where we're not reliant on the police. So then that eventually becomes obsolete. And then we have these other systems in place.

[00:24:58] Matthew Solomon: Um, but at the, at the core of it, for me, in my, in the last couple of years, abolition is really for me about love. And it's about caring for each other and seeing the humanity in one another. And, and really it's like, if we, if we really cared about people, if we really cared about each other, for real, we would do things differently.

[00:25:23] Matthew Solomon: And when we do care, we do things differently. And that's usually based in love and dignity. And, and, you know, humanity and things like that. And so a lot of the systems that we have, um, all stem from controlling populations, making a lot of money for the folks at the top. Like, you know, capitalism is, is completely interwoven into all of this also, and that, you know, it's important to name that, um, you know, all of the systems of oppression are based on, you know, othering populations.

[00:25:58] Matthew Solomon: And so. If I want to be in power and stay in power, then I need an enemy or a threat. Um, you know, same, same with, you know, religion, like the fear of going to hell. Right. Like if it wasn't for that,

[00:26:16] Nikki La Croce: you're tapping on a nerve here and I'm like, control yourself. Um, because it's true. It, it really. I feel like we have very similar perspectives and come from a similar place in terms of that understanding of how much better we could be as a society to each other in humanity if we really allowed ourselves to operate with the intention of bettering humanity rather than, you know, A select few people demanding power and, uh, believing that their oppression is, like, viewing the oppression that they implement as, like, people respecting them, as if they're revered, and it's, like, this is the exact opposite of what We should be doing the human species is collaborative.

[00:27:04] Nikki La Croce: We are connective. And what they're doing is they're isolating people to, um, you know, essentially just create more power. And with, and because of, to your point around the, uh, way capitalism is interwoven, it's like money equals power, more power, more money, more power, more money, more power, more money. And there's this really challenging all or nothing thinking that people have.

[00:27:31] Nikki La Croce: To your point, which makes it so a lot of people stay inactive because the belief is like, well, how will we ever make any sort of change? And in tapping into this concept specifically around abolition, I think is a really great example of. You're right. We couldn't just flip the switch and be like, everybody run free tomorrow.

[00:27:51] Nikki La Croce: And then the rest of society, good luck with that. Um, but there's so many other pieces that go into play that would need to happen for us to actually be able to effectively deliver, um, you know, community based programs that keep people safe and connected. And you couldn't in, in the States right now, like you just, you couldn't do it with the lack of gun control.

[00:28:11] Nikki La Croce: Like it would be,

[00:28:12] Speaker 3: you know,

[00:28:14] Nikki La Croce: Honestly, I feel like it would just be a bloodshed and it would be terrifying. So it's like, um, in, sorry, cause I kind of veered off there. I was like, Oh, this, this topic, I'm going to go there. But yeah, I, I, I'd love if you could, sorry, continue sharing your perspective on abolition.

[00:28:29] Nikki La Croce: I just, uh, I was like, this is a detour I can't avoid.

[00:28:34] Matthew Solomon: Yeah, no. And it's all, I mean, it's, You, you bring up a lot of points, you know, it's like we're, um, Hawk Newsome, who's co founder of Black Lives Matter New York and, and Black Opportunities, who's in the film. He doesn't say this in the film, but, you know, we were talking, uh, about abolition and he was like, look, if, if the cops were gone tomorrow, then whoever's got the most guns is going to take over, you know, like, like, You know, like the cartels or whatever, like that's, you know, what he was saying.

[00:29:04] Matthew Solomon: And then Dr. L. Jones, who's in the film and Nikki Black, who's a sociologist, like they, you know, they're saying, look, we, we, we're, we have to do our own internal work. You know, we have to do the work to heal our traumas. And, you know, and learn how to communicate and not be, like Nikki says, you know, stop being passive aggressive and, you know, calling the police, you know, um, and so there's a lot of, and I, you know, I say like our own internal work, but we also have to do work in community.

[00:29:33] Matthew Solomon: We have to be in community with people and learn how to interact and get along and work together. Cause, you know, like Nikki was saying in the film, um, You know, community by community, house to house, like that's how we start to realize this, uh, you know, a new future. And so I'm thinking, you know, my, my parents lived in the same house for over 50 years near West Hollywood.

[00:30:03] Matthew Solomon: And they're, well, my mom passed away, but my dad's house is. One of two or three on the block that doesn't now have like a huge hedge or a wall or something like all the neighbors Have built up walls, you know, so nobody knows who's who or who you know, like like I had a neighbor we had a neighbor like three or four doors down a couple years ago during December their garage was wide open and they were out of town And they had left their garage open.

[00:30:38] Matthew Solomon: And I'm like, does anybody know who lives there so we can call them and let them know your garage is open and nobody knew.

[00:30:46] Nikki La Croce: That's an interesting point, Matthew. Um, because growing up, like I grew up on a street where like everybody knew everybody, the neighbors and not just like sort of, Oh, by name, it was like, We would, you know, people would be going out to get the mail and you'd have a conversation with somebody and we did leave the door unlocked because you weren't worried that somebody was, was going to come in.

[00:31:06] Nikki La Croce: Right. And I think that there in that, in that statement in and of itself, I recognize the privilege. Um, but I also think that there was a stronger sense of community in that environment than I really understood. Until time had sort of shifted and you, you, to your point, like you just don't know people anymore.

[00:31:26] Nikki La Croce: So if you don't interact with each other, how can you possibly expect to understand each other? And if you don't understand each other, how can you possibly have empathy?

[00:31:34] Matthew Solomon: Yeah.

[00:31:35] Nikki La Croce: So, when you think about what you've, um, experienced in the, the process for yourself here, what was the most challenging part of this journey for you?

[00:31:48] Nikki La Croce: Like, was there any moment that you felt particularly, um, either challenged by your own beliefs, um, of the system or life

[00:31:57] Matthew Solomon: or humanity? I don't know the best way to say it, but, you know, it's kind of a lonely journey in a way.

[00:32:05] Matthew Solomon: On the one hand, I'm really, like, I can't, I couldn't be any happier with how the film's been received and how it's been used and, you know, to have organizations like the Black Panther Party and Washington State endorse the film and made it part of their It's political education curriculum, you know, I'm like, how did, how did that happen?

[00:32:26] Matthew Solomon: You know, and there's these groups in like New Jersey that have been around for decades that are like, yeah, this is an amazing film that everybody needs to see, you know, so I'm, that's, that's been great. Um, doing, traveling and being in community with people who care about people has been great. Um, and, you know, I never know how people are going to respond.

[00:32:50] Matthew Solomon: We had a screening in Newark, New Jersey. Where there were some cops there. And, you know, my experience has been that former cops tend to be like, yeah, you're, you're the film's correct. And, you know, and that's what it's like, but then my, but current officers, when they see the film, get very defensive and they push back and they argue and they try and nitpick, especially there's a, there's a former cop in the film, uh, who, you know, very emotionally talks about her experience.

[00:33:24] Matthew Solomon: You know, and how she thought policing was one thing, but it was, but then saw all the corruption and everything. And so, you know, being in, in a room where I know that there are police officers who are armed, you know, watching this film and not knowing what they're going to say and kind of bracing for the worst and, you know, I'm fortunate because, You know, I would have people like, Oh, you want me to come?

[00:33:48] Matthew Solomon: And I'll, you know, I'll be there with you, which is great. Um, but I also don't want to put anybody in danger or ask anybody to do labor, especially if they're black, you know, black or brown, or, you know, so, so it's, it's tough. And then I'm, you know, I'm going to city to city and meeting cool people, but, um, You know, I love connecting with people and then it's like, all right, and now I'm on to the next city.

[00:34:11] Matthew Solomon: And it's like, wait, we just, we were just friends, you know? So, so that, that's tough. And then, you know, it's like when I leave, I'm, my daughter lives with me full time. I live with my, we live with my dad. Um, So, you know, there's always that concern about being away and, you know, I know my daughter and I have two boys, like they, they don't like that I'm gone as much as I am, you know, so there's that part.

[00:34:37] Matthew Solomon: And then when it's time to come back, when I get home from all of these screenings, you know, there's that, that crash,

[00:34:44] Nikki La Croce: you

[00:34:45] Matthew Solomon: know, because I was on this high and it's like, go, go, go. And, and, you know, it's, it's, it does take a lot of energy. To like, I'm not promoting a horror film or a rom com or something like that, you know, it's, it's, it's an intense conversation that, that has to be, um, handled well, you know?

[00:35:06] Matthew Solomon: So it's, it's, I love it and it's work. And so like, like there's all of that, you know? And then the last thing I'll say is doing all of this work that's so tied into humanity. And then following October 7th and the situation in Palestine and having been aware of that and, you know, tying in the hypocrisy that I was talking about before and being a Jewish person that was raised, um, inside of Zionism, honestly, you know, and my grandparents were Holocaust survivors.

[00:35:39] Matthew Solomon: So there's all these competing things where You know, antisemitism happens. I've experienced it. When people come, come after me, you know, for various things, you know, on social media, it's usually, they usually target the fact that I'm Jewish. Um, so getting the, all of that. Is, is real, um, but that also, uh, is real.

[00:36:06] Matthew Solomon: The nation has confined, you know, like there are people in Gaza and human beings, Palestinians in Gaza and, and, and the West bank that are oppressed and that are denied resources that are other, that are, you know, all the same things that we've done here in the States, you know, putting black people in ghettos and things like that, you know, so it's all, it's all the same framework and yet.

[00:36:31] Matthew Solomon: seeing how, like, after October 7th happened, and then, and then, like, everything just, um, I want to say blew up literally and figuratively, but then to see the division in some social justice organizations where. You know, white women were like, Oh, we were marching in the streets with you in 2020, but now you're, you know, defending terrorists.

[00:36:58] Matthew Solomon: So we're not going to support you anymore when it's really like, if you pay attention to, especially, particularly black women scholars. Who have been writing about this and writing about the connection between black liberation and Palestine, you know, like Angela Davis, um, like it's clear, you know, like what is that it's wrong what's happening, but then there's such a, uh, an association with we have to defend Israel no matter what.

[00:37:29] Matthew Solomon: And the Holocaust and this and that. And, and so a lot of things can be true, but at the core of it, 30, 000 people have been murdered over 12, 000 kids have been murdered, you know, I have a, I'm in a PhD program. And one of my classmates is Palestinian. And in that first week he lost 30 family members. Oh my God.

[00:37:52] Matthew Solomon: And it's like, how do you even like, every time I, I say that, like, I feel like, you know, like, how do you even conceptualize that? And it's so easy for people to be like, Oh, well, you know, that's them, you know, and we have to, we have a right to defend ourselves, but. Like we're you're literally arguing for the right to kill tens of thousands of people.

[00:38:14] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, I totally agree with you And this is something I haven't really vocalized it to be honest because I'm not necessarily like what as I'm saying this I'm like it's going to sound like an excuse right because it's like at any point you could decide that you're going to vocalize it Say it do something about it, right?

[00:38:31] Nikki La Croce: with the mindset of Sort of what you said earlier. It's like I'm I think part of it is like I don't know my place like I'm not I I have feelings on it. I have an opinion that I feel is rooted in human justice and Just humanity overall So I agree with you. I I think that there is a lot of willful, um, just, I don't even want to say willful ignorance.

[00:38:58] Nikki La Croce: It's, it's just really choosing. It's kind of the picking and choosing of like what, you know, branches of humanity will you, or won't you support when in reality, like, do you care about human life? Because if you care about human life and you believe that everybody's life is valuable, sure, some people don't.

[00:39:16] Nikki La Croce: Like, that's very obvious, right? There are people who are hateful and they don't care. But what I've struggled with in being on, you know, social media and seeing how people are responding to the, the conflict there, is that It's basically saying, like, this is my identity, and based on my identity, I refuse to have any other perspective infiltrate that, that might educate me and allow me to have that empathy, and what you were saying earlier about, like, you know, um, We might have been raised with, like, just do the thing that you're supposed to do, whereas, you know, kids now are being raised more with the mindset of, you know, like, express yourself, share what, share what you need to share.

[00:40:02] Nikki La Croce: And then there's this other piece where it's like, how do we help you understand the importance about caring about other people? And it's a big part of why. When I have guests on the show, I'm like say the things that you don't get to say because if you don't say it, and nobody's ever heard it before, where are they gonna hear it?

[00:40:22] Nikki La Croce: And I, I think when you look at this desire to, as you said, other people in the name of community, it's, it's like, Such a contradiction in and of itself. It's like, I don't understand how people can sort of be so protective and also, um, prepared to deny other people their right to life.

[00:40:49] Matthew Solomon: Yeah, it's heartbreaking.

[00:40:50] Matthew Solomon: You know, for me, like 2020 was a big, uh, Like, like I, I see the world pre 2020 and post 2020. And so yeah, I get that, you know, seeing how people discarded people, you know, it was, didn't like, you know, my, in today's March 19th, it's, uh, my mom passed away four years ago today.

[00:41:17] Nikki La Croce: And I'm going to interject for just a split second here.

[00:41:21] Nikki La Croce: I empathize greatly with that. My mom passed away three years ago in February. So like, I understand the type of feeling that is probably, at least in some regard, existing in this moment. So, um, I, Don't want to give the casual. Oh, I'm so sorry I would I would like to acknowledge that it is a very difficult place to be to lose a parent especially mother And so, you know, I just want to hold a little bit of space for that in saying this.

[00:41:48] Matthew Solomon: Thank you. Thank you You know, so we were in the hospital from March 1st until the 19th And it was when COVID was ramping up and there were like the daily press, press conferences, the doctors and nurses didn't know what the heck to do. Like every, every day there were different protocols and things like that.

[00:42:11] Matthew Solomon: And, um, there were times where, you know, cause it was me, my dad and my sister. And there were days where it was like, Oh, only one person can be. You know, on the floor at a time or two people. And so one of us would be like downstairs somewhere and we trade off. Um, you know, you know, she didn't have COVID.

[00:42:31] Matthew Solomon: She, she, it was pneumonia and from, uh, cancer and some other stuff. But, but, but then five days after she passed, my uncle, my dad's brother, who lived in New Jersey. And so, you know, we lost them within five days of each other, but, but, but so early on, I lost somebody I was very close to, to COVID. And, and this was like, you know, beginning and people were like, does on social media, does anybody really know anybody who's died?

[00:43:05] Matthew Solomon: Like, cause there was always this, Oh, it's a hoax. It's not real, you know? And so I'd be like, yeah, me. And here's the Time Magazine story. Cause Time Magazine did a story on, um, people who had lost loved ones and weren't able to have funerals or mourn or whatever. And so my uncle actually was on the cover, um, and, and was one of the five stories, um, you know, and, and then like, I would share that and people were like, oh, well you were lied to.

[00:43:35] Matthew Solomon: That's not what killed him. The, you know, the hospital killed him or this or that, or, you know, and then, and then I lost, like, there were a lot, I, I've actually lost a lot of people over the last four years to COVID and to other things. So, so the, the. Dehumanization, the dismissing of people's experience, the lack of humanity for, for the pain, you know, and then when vaccines were available and I was like super excited cause my dad, you know, my dad gonna, he's 80 now, you know, so this was four years ago.

[00:44:08] Matthew Solomon: So it was like, great, we can be protected, you know, and then to have people like the anti vax, stuff, you know, and then like the QAnon stuff and then like all of that was just, there was just so much, um, self righteousness distraction, but like the self righteousness of we're right. And you're wrong. And, you know, we know what you don't know.

[00:44:31] Matthew Solomon: And, and, and I saw this cause you know, I got into conflict resolution. Through relationship coaching, through like life coaching. And so I was always connected to like the, the wellness, personal development community. Um, this, this is something I don't talk about a lot, but you know, I was very immersed in like personal development and all of the, like, you know, Gurus and, you know, the new thought leaders and, you know, like holistic whatever's right.

[00:45:04] Matthew Solomon: And to see so many of them, uh, you know, people made choices. That's fine. But to, to demonize People who got vaccines, who had experienced death and didn't want their family members to die. And literally, like I remember there was this one, one practitioner who had posted something about like not wanting to get the vaccine or whatever.

[00:45:32] Matthew Solomon: And I was, and I messaged her privately. I was like, look, this has been my experience. You have a big platform, you know, and I don't, I don't want more people to die. And she was like, well, you make your choice and I'll make mine. And I'm just going to, you know, and so, and, and seeing like the grifting, like people creating courses and, and programs to make money off of, uh, you know, the pandemic instead of like, how do we really take care of each other, you know, like.

[00:46:04] Matthew Solomon: So anyway, yeah, that's been, and then like within those communities, there's a lot of anti black racism. There's a lot of, you know, um, cause it's, cause it's very, uh, again, it just feeds back to the I'm right and you're wrong. I know something you don't know. So I'm superior. Um, and, and, you know, and, and like, I think, I think that's ingrained in a lot of us too, cause I have to check myself.

[00:46:30] Matthew Solomon: When I'm out there doing this work, it's like, okay, am I interacting from a place of I'm going to put you in your place? Or is it no, let's share information. And I, you know, I really want to. contribute, right? So yeah, it's tricky.

[00:46:44] Nikki La Croce: I love that you said that to Matthew because it makes me think about something.

[00:46:47] Nikki La Croce: It's a pretty benign conversation, but I'm going to use this as an example. So, um, I don't even remember what my wife and I were watching, but there was something related to people shopping for wedding dresses and I don't particularly care about these things, but I acted like I had an opinion that had information behind it, right?

[00:47:04] Nikki La Croce: Like I was like, I am, this is, you don't know. And then, um, I had to pause for a second. I'm like, no, you worked in a bridal shop. So I should probably shut up. Right? Like that's, I don't know what I'm talking about. I was like, so ready to like go to the mat for something really quickly that I didn't know or care about.

[00:47:19] Nikki La Croce: And I was like, yes, this is an important thing to acknowledge. And I do think that visceral desire to be right. can often overpower our ability to see things objectively. And when you speak about these larger systemic issues, the thing that I find to be so powerful to a lot of people, and I'm curious if you, what your opinion on this is, um, is that it's sort of the, this is the way it's always been.

[00:47:49] Nikki La Croce: So therefore it must be right. And it's like, if anything, um, This is the way it's always been, is like the hallmark of shit's about to go sideways, like, it's just not, it's, it's not commonly the thing that moves us forward, and it's something that without going too, you know, far into the political, um, like, party side of things, and more just thinking conceptually about wanting to make change in the world, in, in the country, whatever it might be, is that, People belittle and, and fear this idea of being progressive, when in reality, like, what does the word progressive mean?

[00:48:27] Nikki La Croce: It means you're making progress. Don't we want to make progress? There's a big difference in terms of we move forward together. Versus like, let's regress, you know, let's, let's, let's bring ourselves back to a thing that theoretically worked, but only for a fraction of the people. And even then, was it what you claim it to be?

[00:48:47] Nikki La Croce: So I, I, I wonder sort of what your experience or thoughts around that are.

[00:48:50] Matthew Solomon: I mean, you, you, as you were before you said that, that's pretty much what I was thinking also. Cause I was thinking of like progressives and conservatives and why wouldn't you want to? you know, progress. Right. But then, yeah, there are people that benefit from the way things used to be or this ideal, uh, of how things were and that it was so much better when, you know, maybe in some ways for some people, but not really.

[00:49:16] Matthew Solomon: Right.

[00:49:17] Nikki La Croce: I feel like it's idealized quite a bit.

[00:49:19] Matthew Solomon: Yeah. And, you know, like a lot of people love science fiction movies, right? And science is all about the future. Right. The things that we could do and. And, and then, you know, and it's like, I mean, I guess it also ties into people have made the connection with, um, like the alt right groups and neo Nazis and stuff, and it's like all of these movies that we all love, Star Wars, you know, whatever, like it was always pushing back against fascist regimes, like the, you know, the superheroes, like all of that.

[00:49:53] Matthew Solomon: But, but people don't make that connection.

[00:49:56] Nikki La Croce: That's a really interesting point. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, if you, if you frame an issue in. One way versus, uh, sort of in the fantastical realm of things where it's like the willing suspension of disbelief, then they can buy into it. But if it's actually happening, happening in front of you, then like you just, you're like, no, that's not the case, right?

[00:50:15] Nikki La Croce: Like we, we, we lean heavily on denialism to validate our own experiences when in reality, it's like you are denying so many other people their experiences because you refuse to sort of see what's really going on around you. And, and we've been. Also, I think a bit conditioned to that perspective because of how algorithms work.

[00:50:37] Nikki La Croce: I mean, it's so easy to get caught in an echo chamber now. If you're not looking for something that's going to expand your mind, your, your perspective, then you're going to keep seeing more of the same stuff. And that's by design. And that's also a mechanism of control. And when I say things like this, there's the former part of me.

[00:50:57] Nikki La Croce: That's like, somebody's going to think you sound like you're a conspiracy theorist. And the other part of me, that's like, it's really valid though. You know? And with the film, something that I, and I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. I'm, I'm really excited to, like I said, having listened to you on other shows and seeing the previews is just like.

[00:51:17] Nikki La Croce: I know that it's going to be really powerful. What do you think, um, or maybe not, what do you think? Is there a particular desired outcome, ideal outcome that you would like for somebody who's watching the film to, to have, um, either a shift in perspective, uh, the desire to go learn more, all of the above, something else completely.

[00:51:40] Matthew Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. All of the above to, excuse me, have a shift in perspective. Yeah. To, um, want to get into action and, and actually, you know, connect with whatever, uh, organizations are in, you know, their neighborhood that they can contribute to and participate in and be in community with. And build, you know, take collective action and build coalitions and, um, have, uh, like a stronger base for those of us who really care about humanity and want to make change to influence the politicians and the policymakers and to cause a shift.

[00:52:25] Matthew Solomon: Because, yeah, right, right now, one of the things that I found doing this tour, Is, you know, there are these amazing organizations and a lot of them are just siloed off in their own cities. You know, some of them have, you know, are national and they have chapters here and there, but, but there's so much more going on.

[00:52:43] Matthew Solomon: Like, like it's, it's really. Uh, amazing. And it's also frustrating because there's all these groups everywhere doing really great work. And, and so one of the things that I've been doing is I'm working with Here For The Kids, um, to bring all of the coalition partners together. And so, you know, we, we do, you know, monthly calls and we're going to do like a, an in person summit and, you know, and basically it's so people in Seattle can connect with people in San Antonio can connect with people in, uh, you know, Trenton, New Jersey and Memphis and everywhere in between.

[00:53:25] Matthew Solomon: And, you know, we haven't yet done a Canada screening. I haven't been in the, in Europe, the UK or anything yet. And these are all places I want to go that, um, I know that there's, uh, an audience for.

[00:53:38] Nikki La Croce: For sure. Well, and I definitely think like being on the West coast and having grown up on the East coast, uh, especially when I think about just sort of the general population, Philadelphia has, um, a much higher black population than Seattle, at least.

[00:53:53] Nikki La Croce: Yep. Yeah, from my perspective, I can say that, um, in, in the fact that like, even just sort of the suburbs, um, obviously it makes a lot of sense just sort of based on where people have, have come from historically. Right. And I, I think that Vancouver, first of all, being a film hub is a, is a great place to, to do some screenings.

[00:54:13] Nikki La Croce: Um, but also I think that moving to the West coast was a really liberating thing for me. I'd always wanted to, I'd wanted to go to California. It didn't play out that way, but I love the Pacific Northwest and I can't imagine being somewhere else. Seattle was the honestly like kind of first only place that I did actually interact with law enforcement a bit because of issues with my ex.

[00:54:39] Nikki La Croce: Unfortunately, things that I in theory never should have had to experience, but it was like a little glimpse into this feeling of injustice. Now, granted. In retrospect, there was a lot of gaslighting. So I say this with the context of I was very defensive against the police officers, but I now in hindsight, I'm like, maybe I should have been like a little less, um, you know, intense with them about it because I couldn't understand like what lies I was being told versus kind of what they were seeing and how to navigate that.

[00:55:11] Nikki La Croce: But. The thing that I did recognize was, especially like during the Black Lives Matter protests, how much activation there was here. Um, and in particular with, um, with my own experience with police officers, the part that really stood out to me was there was like no trauma informed training. Like it was so clear that they had no means to really like Understand the mental health aspect of it the way that you're approaching people And so again saying this as a white female who was with a white female You know, we're queer.

[00:55:51] Nikki La Croce: So like potentially that could have factored into the way that we were treated but Even if it didn't, um, I think that there's this sense of, oh, like, I don't really feel safe in the presence of these police officers. Now, I grew up with family friends who were police officers. You know, the mindset of like, they're here to keep you safe.

[00:56:11] Nikki La Croce: But then when I actually had the integration and the experience with that, it was like, whoa, this is extremely like, I don't feel safe. I feel attacked almost. Not, not actually to be very clear, but like, I'm, I'm on guard and I'm very nervous about the power that they wield. And I was wondering if you had any experience with law enforcement prior to doing this film that impacted your perspective and if that was either changed or validated by what you did here.

[00:56:42] Matthew Solomon: Um, yeah, I've, I've, I've had a lot of experiences, um, you know, not just through my friends, but personal experiences. Um, I have a family member who's in law enforcement. And, you know, honestly, you know, so Black Lives Matter started around 2013 ish after Trayvon Martin was murdered. And then, uh, Eric Garner and, um, uh, and Mike Brown and all of that.

[00:57:16] Matthew Solomon: And, you know, I was always very supportive of the movement. But because I had a family member in law enforcement, because I was raised with, oh, you know, cops are here to keep us safe and they just need better training, right? Um, you know, I was more, uh, what's the word? I appreciated cops more. Um, cause they're, you know, jobs, you know, dangerous or whatever, right?

[00:57:42] Matthew Solomon: That, that's the whole thing.

[00:57:44] Nikki La Croce: And there's sort of the civil servant aspect of it that we, uh, at least I think can, can be perceived depending on what environment you're in.

[00:57:51] Matthew Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. And, and also like, you know, TV and film, you know, how police are portrayed and in the news. And, and, you know, I was thinking about this the other day, my, my daughter and I were talking about 9 11.

[00:58:03] Speaker 3: You

[00:58:03] Matthew Solomon: know, and so the police and the firefighters, you know, who died on nine 11 and, and so that thing, and then, and, and so I, my family member was a drill instructor in the Academy in the, one of the police departments here. And so, um, I, he had invited me a couple of times and I did it to volunteer in the Academy when they do the role playing exercises at the end.

[00:58:32] Matthew Solomon: Um, and so I got to see how they were trained. Um, and you know, it's like we say, they say protect and serve, but it's really command and control. It's really, you know, I need to get you under control, get the situation under control. Um, I'm in charge. People need to know I'm in charge. Uh, there was a reality show in like 2006 or 7 called The Academy.

[00:58:57] Matthew Solomon: That followed the LA Sheriff's Department Academy. And it showed like how they were trained and it's all like, they call it command presence. When I walk in a room, you have to know I'm in charge. You're going to do what I tell you to do. Like that's the, that's the, the conditioning.

[00:59:10] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:59:10] Matthew Solomon: And then you get out on the street and well, first sheriff's department, they go into the jails first and then they go on the street, LAPD, they go on the street.

[00:59:20] Matthew Solomon: But what, you know, the way that you prove yourself is You have to get in fights, you have to make arrests, you have to harass people, you have to prove to your partners that you're not going to take crap from anybody, and if somebody's giving them crap, that you're going to jump in and have their back.

[00:59:36] Matthew Solomon: Right? And so, and then the whole incentive system and how you prove that you're doing a good job and how you get promoted is all through Locking people up or, you know, um, all of that. So, so the whole system is based on violence. And Alex Vitale in the film, he's, you know, he says police are violence workers.

[01:00:03] Matthew Solomon: And at the core of everything, like, that's what they're trained and programmed to do. And so people are like, well, what if they had better training in de escalation, right? So, in the academy, on the average, police academies nationwide, they spend 60 hours on firearms training, 60 hours shooting, only 8 hours on de escalation.

[01:00:28] Matthew Solomon: And that doesn't include like the, the 60 hours of firearms is just firearms. That's not the hand to hand combat. That's not like mace. That's not, you know, tasing, you know, so it's so lopsided. And so people like, oh, well, if they were trained better, but all the conditioning is, you know, Go home at the end of the night.

[01:00:48] Matthew Solomon: You never know what's around the next corner. You know, this traffic stop could be your last, you know? So, so they're always on edge. And I've, this family member, like we've been out, we don't, well, we don't really hang out anymore, but before, you know, we would be places and he'd be like, Oh, look at that guy.

[01:01:05] Matthew Solomon: That guy looks suspicious. You know, or what's, what's going on. And so like w we were, we were at, we were on this, uh, our kids were going to this Saturday program at a, at a, uh, college here in LA and the college happened to be having, uh, music tryouts for the, for the school of music. Right. So there are all these musicians like practicing violin and flute and whatever.

[01:01:31] Matthew Solomon: And which is great. Cause I was a musician. I went to music school. I was like, Oh, my people. Right.

[01:01:35] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:01:36] Matthew Solomon: So we're sitting there. And all of a sudden he's like, Oh, check out that dude over there. He looks suspicious. And it was an Asian, Asian, young Asian man with long black hair. Dressed in all black, wearing black gloves, and I'm like, he looks like a guitar player.

[01:01:53] Matthew Solomon: He's like, no, no, no, something's not right. Like people are, and sure enough, the guy like bent down, picked up his guitar and walked off, you know, but it's that mentality of that person's suspicious. They're doing something wrong.

[01:02:04] Nikki La Croce: Operating from a place of fear. And it's like, if I think about what it's like, this is the whole like, having done therapy and being like, how does it feel in your body, right?

[01:02:13] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Um, the somatic experience, I feel like being somebody that is in, in hot, is in a high intensity job like that, and then it is not only, you know, perpetuated by this really heavy leaning towards violence and control, it's like your body is literally in a state of survival at all times telling you that anybody, anything could kill you, and so you are unbelievably hyper vigilant, like I was so hyper vigilant at the peak of the things that were happening with my ex, that like I grew up, like I said, my mom's from New York, like I grew up going to the city.

[01:02:53] Nikki La Croce: I never felt unsafe being in cities. Like I was aware, I was taught to be aware of what's around you. Like, you know, don't be like the ignorant little suburban kid who comes in and hold your purse down like by the, by the side, as if like nobody's going to come in and gank it from you. You know, I, I think that having those experiences and being, Witness to like my own transformation when I felt threatened even if the threat wasn't there Yeah, you don't want to put a gun in those people's hands You don't want to have them regardless of the firearms have them in charge of deciding who is you know the quote bad guy and who's not because they're Literally, not only being trained in the tactical, but like, their emotional and literal, like, physical body responding to that training is teaching them that it is okay and in fact essential to take people out for their own protection first and foremost, which then they can project as protection of other people.

[01:03:59] Nikki La Croce: It's mind blowing to think about that, and I really appreciate that you shared that. That is an incredible fact about the amount of time that is spent on the, the firearms training and to your point, the other things that aren't even factored into that. I wonder as, as we're kind of coming to the, to the end of the conversation here, like in all of this, I love that you you've shared so much about your journey.

[01:04:28] Nikki La Croce: Thank you so much for, for going to those places and speaking to these, these moments for you. Like, what do you hope to see in the future? Um, for the progression of, um, whether it's, I don't even know that I want to say that it's law enforcement or policing specifically, but, um, if you feel like that's where you want to touch on, go for it.

[01:04:50] Nikki La Croce: But like in general, like how, as you said from the beginning, like, can we care for each other more? Like what, what is your hope or your vision for the future? Um, assuming that, you know, people are getting activated and they're, they're congregating and they're creating some momentum there.

[01:05:08] Matthew Solomon: Um, my, my biggest hope is that, um, you know, collectively we get to a place where we're recognizing the humanity in one another, regardless of where we live or what we look like, or, you know, Um, uh, it's, it's interesting having this conversation in 2024 in an election year here in the States where, like, you know, we have this, we, we lock up more people than anybody else and, and we can't get this one guy who's got, you know, 91 allegations.

[01:05:55] Matthew Solomon: But the system isn't

[01:05:56] Nikki La Croce: rigged, Matthew. It's not. It's very clearly. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:06:00] Matthew Solomon: You know, um, and like going back to like being Jewish and having grandparents that were Holocaust survivors and recognizing fascism. You know, when I see it, um, it's, it's interesting. I, I, my, without knowing how things are going to go.

[01:06:18] Matthew Solomon: I really don't. Uh, my hope is that. That collectively, you know, with, with the film, um, there have been white liberals who have seen it who, uh, were like, yeah, I was afraid of defund the police, but now I get it. And I, you know, I want to make a difference. And, and so that, you know, opens up the humanity in people or that, that has, um, My hope is that, you know, I don't know what, what it's going to take.

[01:06:53] Matthew Solomon: I think with, with kids, you know, it can be, you know, incorporated into education and stuff like teaching kids how to listen. And I know like, you know, they do like listening circles on Mondays at some schools and things like that. But, but to, to really emphasize humanity, you know, versus memorizing things, you know, bits and pieces and all of that.

[01:07:21] Matthew Solomon: Um, but I, but I really think it's, uh, yeah, I just want people to care about people. And that was like, after 2020, I had said, like, I lost faith in humanity for a while. Cause I was like, man, people are messed up and they don't, they don't care. Like there is no empathy. Um, but then this last year, uh, being in community with, All of these amazing folks and organizations, like, it's like, Oh, there are people who care and they are doing work that's community based.

[01:07:49] Matthew Solomon: Um, and so, you know, tying it to policing and police and prisons, um, there are community response teams in cities, you know, across the United States. There are violence prevention workers in cities across the United States. Um, focusing more on them, giving them, uh, resources and things like that to, to build community.

[01:08:20] Matthew Solomon: Um, you know, that's something that's been, you know, I lived in Inglewood for a while, which historically was predominantly a black community. It's being gentrified, which sucks. Um, but at a, you know, one of my neighbors was like, yeah, we used to just on Sundays, we would all bring our, our grills out. We would like cook.

[01:08:43] Matthew Solomon: Barbecue and, you know, have music and like the whole block, you know, would be hanging out, you know? So I would love to see that, you know, more of that in, in getting to know our neighbors and getting to know the neighbors of our neighbors and, and, and things like that. That's my hope that, that we find a way.

[01:09:05] Matthew Solomon: I don't know. I feel like I'm kind of thinking about this on the fly and the thing is like I had so figured that COVID would be the thing that would bring us together like 9 11 did, you know, like 9 11, there was a very, and, you know, there was a lot of anti Muslim stuff that happened like Because of that.

[01:09:26] Matthew Solomon: So I recognize that. Um, but there was also like this collective feeling of the country coming together. And I know that there were populations that weren't included in that, but COVID didn't have any of that. No, it was like a great divider. People took their sides and were fighting for toilet paper. And, you know,

[01:09:49] Nikki La Croce: it was like, honestly, the, it was like a really bleak time for humanity.

[01:09:53] Nikki La Croce: I think to witness the, um, it might be an overstatement, but it felt kind of savage. Um, and it, it, As if we had reverted to this like extremely animalistic state of, um, both the hoarding side of it, but also the mentality of, I care about me, I don't need to care about you. And what I, what I find really interesting too, about what you're saying in terms of the community activation, and you've said this a couple of times in the conversation.

[01:10:26] Nikki La Croce: So this is where I want to emphasize it is. I think that we have, um, done a good job in a lot of ways of congregating virtually. Um, and because I, because I think it's really hard for people to meet people in person who are uncomfortable with it. So much of what you witness is like, it's hard to make friends.

[01:10:48] Nikki La Croce: I don't know like where to meet people if not at work or like at a school or whatever, like where, where do I go for that? And I feel like this is a really great opportunity to invite people to look at organizations that are operating in your city. Look for people who are also activated. To help create positive change and maybe that's somewhere where you can find people that are your people It doesn't have to be a common interest rooted in like a very mundane Activity or or work or something that doesn't connect you on a visceral level.

[01:11:20] Nikki La Croce: Like those things are a lot of times rooted in proximity. Like you can go find people who resonate with you. If you are intentional about what it is that you want to connect on. And if activism in some way, or even if it's not activism, but like education, whatever it might be, some way to build community and create more connection in those ways, like that can be.

[01:11:41] Nikki La Croce: that holds so much power in elevating us forward as individuals and as the collective which you're speaking to.

[01:11:51] Matthew Solomon: Absolutely.

[01:11:52] Nikki La Croce: Matthew, I have really enjoyed this conversation. I, I've felt so good throughout this, this chat and just like extremely engaged with your story and I appreciate you sharing, you know, how you've really come to this place and I, you know, I can't wait to watch the movie.

[01:12:09] Nikki La Croce: I literally will probably For listeners, it's called reimagining safety and you can I know you can find it on Amazon I will have links and things in the show notes but is there anywhere else that you'd like people to find you or To check out any more information about the film or where they can they can help contribute

[01:12:30] Matthew Solomon: sure Yeah, well the the website for the film is reimagining safety movie And that's also the Instagram reimagining safety movie.

[01:12:39] Matthew Solomon: So follow there. Um, we're continuing, the film is on streaming, um, and we're continuing to do in person, uh, community impact screenings. And so we're going to be, uh, Washington state. We're going to be in Boston. We're going to be in Newark, New Jersey again. Um, all of that's coming up so you can, you know, go to the website, the calendar's there, uh, if you wanna host a screening.

[01:13:04] Matthew Solomon: Um, so, you know, people are doing like living room screenings with their friends, which that's great. And, and there's still, and we're doing community screening, so if you wanna host a screening, you can email me through the website. Um, yeah. Reimagining safety movie is all the, the.com and the Instagram and the, the Gmail.

[01:13:24] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, well, let's definitely connect, um, and see if we can get a screening up here in Vancouver. Um, I don't have a ton of connections since I'm still kind of a newbie to Canada, but, um, yeah, I would love to be able to, to bring the film here and get more attention to it. So, Matthew, I just appreciate you so much.

[01:13:43] Nikki La Croce: Thank you for this conversation. Um, and I really can't emphasize enough how Much I feel connected to your mission and Impacted I am by your Openness to you know as you said like kind of get your foot in the door and and be able to help other people through It so um to the audience. Thank you so much for listening.

[01:14:07] Nikki La Croce: I hope that you were able to Really feel connected to this message as well. And as Matthew said, you can find him online Instagram, wherever you get your podcasts is where you're finding this episode and Matthew is also on a few other podcasts So I'll share those as well. If you want to hear more from him until next time Gang, thanks so much for joining me for this week's episode.

[01:14:28] Nikki La Croce: I just appreciate your support and it means so much to me that you tune in week after week. The best thing that you can do to help spread the word about the podcast is if this episode resonated with you, go ahead and share it with somebody else wherever you listen to your podcasts, or you can go ahead and subscribe to my YouTube channel and share it from there.

[01:14:45] Nikki La Croce: I also really appreciate it if you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts, because that really helps. Give people a better understanding of what this show is about and what you appreciate about the conversations that we're having. And until then, I'll catch you on the flip side.