Spiritual Wisdom for The Modern World with Greg Ripley

[00:00:00] Nikki La Croce: Hey, gang, I'm Nikki La Croce. And today I'm sharing the mic with Greg Ripley. Greg's a Taoist priest and forest therapy guide, as well as the author of 100 Remedies of the Tao, Spiritual Wisdom for Interesting Times. And sure to say we are in interesting times. So welcome to the show, Greg. I'm excited to have you here.

[00:00:18] Greg Ripley: Hey, thanks so much, Nikki, for having me.

[00:00:20] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. So I would love to kind of dive in a little bit, just to start with how you really even found your path to the Tao to begin with.

[00:00:30] Greg Ripley: Yeah, it's one of those that I think, um, like most people along the way, I felt like I was all over the place. And then hindsight, a lot of the decisions and a lot of the different influences, um, made a lot of sense together.

[00:00:46] Both: Yeah. So

[00:00:46] Greg Ripley: looking back, I can see how things fit together really pretty well, but yeah. So let's see, I guess, um, you know, in, in. When I was growing up, I always felt a little bit kind of alienated and outsider y and, uh, you know, so I was, in, in junior high and high school, I was into skateboarding and punk rock and, and that whole kind of vibe, um.

[00:01:11] Nikki La Croce: I can relate. I, I didn't, I didn't skateboard, but I had the, the vibe.

[00:01:17] Greg Ripley: Yeah, for sure. So it was like, you know, w why would I want to play sports? Why would I want to join that club or this club? Or why would I want to do any of that? Like none, none of that seemed appealing. And so, you know, so I, I guess I found some sense of belonging through, um, you know, on the fringes, I guess maybe it's the best way to, to put it.

[00:01:39] Greg Ripley: Right. Yeah, and always kind of feeling like, I didn't quite fit here, didn't quite fit there, but you know, I had some friends that I could relate to over here with certain things, like, I had friends that I skated with, I had friends that I'd go to punk shows with, I had friends that I'd snowboard with, and there was some overlap there, but there was not necessarily always the same group, um, and so, yeah, I always kind of felt like I was kind of always on the fringes.

[00:02:06] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, I really love the way you describe that as being on the fringes. It's super, super relatable. My wife and I talk about this a lot actually, because it was never for lack of, you know, having a sense of, you know, community, even in small pockets. Like I had a decent amount of friends through the sports that I played or the activities that I did, but it was like something viscerally inside of me felt like it didn't belong somewhere.

[00:02:29] Nikki La Croce: And so it was like, what is the thing that's missing the connection that I'm craving? But I don't yet understand. And the fact that that sort of is, is where you're leading off, I think is really wonderful because in the past few years, especially, um, about three years ago, um, my mom passed away, but right before that I was leaving a toxic relationship and I was really trying to find my way.

[00:02:55] Nikki La Croce: And I actually started listening a lot to Alan Watts. And so like, that became such a. a really important turning point for me with the ideas of Zen Buddhism and Taoism and like really constructing sort of this sense of self through these ideas that seem very obvious as a human if we like allow ourselves the space to kind of feel through them and find our way in that.

[00:03:22] Nikki La Croce: So, um, yeah, if you want to expand a little bit more on sort of how that kind of, um, culminated and where you got to.

[00:03:28] Greg Ripley: Sure, sure. So, um, you know, I, I think that kind of remained true, um, for a while. Um, when I started college, I really had no idea what I was doing or no idea what direction to go in. Just taking, um, you know, required classes and things.

[00:03:46] Greg Ripley: And, um, didn't really figure out what Much direction until I think I went for either a year, year and a half, something like that, and then took time off. I had moved in the middle of my senior year from Idaho to Tennessee and had a bit of a culture shock there. Yeah. And, and so after about a year, uh, of college in, uh, Tennessee, I, I went back to Idaho, kind of took some time to just work and hang out with my friends and, you know, go hiking and camping and rock climbing and do stuff like that.

[00:04:20] Greg Ripley: And, um, over that time period, um, I had a couple of good friends from high school still who were starting to read stuff like Alan Watts or like a couple of the books I remember from that time that were really sort of made an impact were like, um, Zen Mind Beginner's Mind by Shinryu Suzuki was a big one for me, I think, and, um, There was a Chogyam Trungpa book, um, Shambhala, The Sacred Path of the Warrior, something like that.

[00:04:50] Greg Ripley: Um, couple of those that kind of started, um, kind of getting me to look in that direction. And then, you know, before long, it was like raiding the library for anything and everything to do with any kind of Eastern philosophy whatsoever. And, um, yeah, I think that and I think spending time in nature, I don't know that at the time I really understood what it was doing for me, but I think, um, I always felt a sense of belonging in nature.

[00:05:21] Greg Ripley: Um, you know, even if, I could be by myself in nature with a couple of friends in nature and feel like, Oh, I, you know, just sitting here around the campfire, whatever I belong, this is like, everything's fine. You know, everything's good with the world out here in nature. And then you get back into your daily life and jobs and everything and everything can get all chaotic.

[00:05:45] Greg Ripley: But, um, yeah, so anyway, I, uh, got some direction there, went back to school, um, studied, uh, did, uh, a Chinese studies program that was focused on, well, it was, it was a interdisciplinary program that was, uh, Asian studies didn't have its own department. So it was like this interdisciplinary studies program that, um, you take history classes or philosophy classes or, um, language classes, um, you know, from, from all different departments that had to do with your area of interest.

[00:06:18] Greg Ripley: And so, um, that's really where I got some direction, um, did that. And then, you know, life happened. Uh, at one point I was going to go, um, study in Hong Kong for a year, instead got engaged and, uh, sidetracked and never made it. Um, and, uh, you know, as, as these things happen, life happened. And, uh, So, um, anyway, uh, eventually, um, eventually got through school.

[00:06:51] Greg Ripley: There were, there were some, uh, some more sidetracks in there.

[00:06:54] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. That's one of the hardest things is I think kind of even just navigating the path as you're, you're maybe being thrown new experiences or opportunities and you're making those choices very much in the moment with the information that you have in front of you.

[00:07:08] Nikki La Croce: Right. So it's like, um, it might not be the way that we expect, but I think one of the things that I love just sort of about Daoism is sort of the acceptance of, of that and being able to give yourself the opportunity to just kind of go into those moments like that sort of like radical presence, um, and, and that, you know, You know, uh, you referred to it in another, um, podcast that I watched with you around sort of like self cultivation.

[00:07:40] Nikki La Croce: I feel like that was such a great terminology.

[00:07:42] Greg Ripley: Yeah, I liked one of my, one of my teachers, um, like to stress the idea of accepting and allowing, um, and by that just accepting whatever, whatever the circumstances are, whatever's going on, just accept that that is really happening. That is life. this moment is this moment, whether we want it to be this way or not.

[00:08:04] Greg Ripley: Um, you know, and allowing it to be what it is. And so, I mean, if we don't do that, if we're, if we're fighting with reality and we can't even accept it for what it is, it's like, we're, we're never gonna,

[00:08:16] Nikki La Croce: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

[00:08:17] Greg Ripley: You know, make it, make any progress or, or figure anything out. Right. We're, we're just going to be struggling and struggling.

[00:08:22] Greg Ripley: Um, but if we can stop and go, okay, This is what's happening. And, um, you know, see, see things clearly, then we can at least, you know, know what, have an inkling of, of knowing what we need to do or, or what direction we need to take.

[00:08:40] Nikki La Croce: For sure. And I, something I wanted to ask, um, because I know that Being um, a forest therapy guide, obviously you're active in nature now.

[00:08:48] Nikki La Croce: You're very much promoting like the benefit of being in nature and the, the way that we can connect sort of with ourselves and, and with the earth in that way. Have you always been somebody who gravitated towards that, um, the sort of the more outdoor natural world? Um, obviously you mentioned, you know, in maybe your later teens, early twenties, having that sense of belonging and comfort there, but is that something that you always felt or did you kind of land there over the I

[00:09:14] Greg Ripley: think a little of both.

[00:09:15] Greg Ripley: I think I, I think I had that connection as a child and sort of forgot about it along the way. Um, you know, I think when I was, Oh, I'm trying to think probably like early, um, early elementary kind of age. Um, you know, I, I think I spent a lot of time running around outside and it was kind of like, um, a neighborhood that was really kind of, you know, Really had a lot of nature in it and a lot of places where you could run through the woods or you could, you know, there'd be old kind of drainage ditchy kind of places where there were old stone foundations from some, you know, long forgotten house or something and things like that.

[00:09:59] Greg Ripley: So where it was kind of like nature with some of that some of that kind of history and Almost like a mythological dimension to it, where when you're a kid and half of what your experience is in your imagination and half is reality around you, you know, you're running around pretending to be Yeah, you know Peter Pan or something, right?

[00:10:23] Greg Ripley: Or you're you're you're playing some game and half of it is is is a shared reality with your friends Where you're playing make believe whatever.

[00:10:32] Both: Yeah,

[00:10:32] Greg Ripley: and um So you're imagining all these kind of things onto the landscape, but then you're also experiencing the natural world, too, more than, um, maybe we typically do as adults if we're, if we're not spending a lot of time out there.

[00:10:46] Greg Ripley: And so I think there was that, um, element to it. And then I think, um, I think I kind of forgot about that as I, as I grew up. kind of lived in not a, it wasn't that urban of an environment, but it, um, I mean, as a teenager, I lived in Boise, Idaho. It's not, it's not a metropolis by any means, but, you know, I spent most of my time kind of in and around downtown.

[00:11:11] Greg Ripley: And so, Even though it was a small downtown, it was kind of more, more of an urban setting from that standpoint. And of course, skateboarding, that's what you're immersing yourself in, right? You're not really doing that in the woods. The concrete jungle. Yeah, the concrete jungle, not the real jungle. So, um, I think, uh, maybe having Pulled myself out of nature for a while that then I, I kind of needed to get back to it and didn't really even realize it until I started doing activities that were taking me back out into nature.

[00:11:43] Greg Ripley: And then, um, yeah, finding that sense of connection and part of what I think drew me to like Eastern philosophy and, and stuff like that was like a lot of, uh, a lot of Chinese poetry, Japanese poetry is, is very nature oriented, right? And so I think I always found them very inspiring and those settings and what they were talking about.

[00:12:07] Greg Ripley: And so that went along with the philosophy of religion and the whole kind of nature vibe of Taoism and Zen and stuff. And so I think that, that all kind of drew me, drew me back to nature.

[00:12:19] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, I love that explanation. Thank you. And it's interesting to think about the juxtaposition of punk rock and, um, sort of the ancient philosophy and poetry that you're describing, but I understand that because I'm very similar.

[00:12:37] Nikki La Croce: You know, I think that either way you look at it, there's this form of poetry. expression that resonates with us. And so, um, when it comes to that evolution and where we're going in our lives, I think, you know, sometimes you can kind of pinpoint, you know, the song that you were listening to, or the poem that you read and go back to that moment and really sort of imbibe that feeling of who you were in that moment.

[00:13:00] Nikki La Croce: in that moment in time. Um, and then, you know, to come back to those things later in life and, and both have that reminiscent experience, but also really consider it in a new way, I think can be really fascinating, especially when you consider how you've become who you are through sort of micro moments like that, all just building up to, to create that, who we are now and where we are now in our lives.

[00:13:27] Nikki La Croce: So when you really made the decision to come into Taoism as something that, you know, really spoke to personally and professionally, what was the response, you know, for people around you? Is this something that you felt like you had to kind of convince people of was like a reasonable life path? Or did was it sort of like you, you were very invested in it and people hopped on board?

[00:13:53] Greg Ripley: Um, It probably depends on at what point. Um, so I mean, that, that in and of itself was kind of a long winding road as far as, um, you know, I was doing that in college, but of course, like, You know, uh, when I was in college, my parents probably were like, Oh yeah, China, you could take Chinese and do international business.

[00:14:15] Greg Ripley: You know, that kind of a thing like that sounds so practical and, and, and great. And it was like, yeah, I don't know that that's really what's gonna, what's going to happen here. Um, but, um, you know, eventually I, When I, when I finished up, I ended up minoring in horticulture as well. And so I was, for a while I was working in landscaping and then I was working in organic farming for a while.

[00:14:41] Greg Ripley: And so it was like the other side of things. Um, as far as I was outside all day, every day, and you know, getting more than enough nature probably. Um, and at some point it was like, okay, I'm not going to do this forever. Uh, and, uh, Time to go back to school and uh, so that's when I went into acupuncture and did acupuncture school.

[00:15:04] Greg Ripley: And so that was kind of a way I think of, of being like, um, Taoist adjacent. Um, as far as you know, there, there weren't a lot of opportunities to, to teach. study Taoism other than in academia, you know, do a master's in religious studies or something like that. Um, but that wasn't really the path I wanted to take either.

[00:15:29] Greg Ripley: And so it was like, um, at the time, I think there were a lot of people probably who were, Kind of doing this to where, um, you know, there weren't necessarily a lot of opportunities to strictly just study Daoism. Um, but you could study a bunch of Daoist influenced things and stuff and kind of Daoist adjacent things.

[00:15:48] Greg Ripley: And so, Chinese medicine is kind of that way in that it shares a lot of the same world view, um, But it's not strictly speaking Taoist, although, you know, some of the famous physicians through Chinese history and stuff were Taoist priests and things like that, but probably just as many were Confucian scholars or whatever too.

[00:16:09] Greg Ripley: So, yeah, so that was kind of a way of, of kind of stepping into that worldview, um, without, uh, you know, taking off to a temple somewhere, and immersing myself that way. But, uh, and now, I mean, there are actually opportunities to do that. Um, you know, 20 years ago, that wasn't really, um, an option so much. Um, or maybe it was just barely starting to be.

[00:16:34] Greg Ripley: Um, and so, you know, I think, uh, During those years, I also studied with Buddhist teachers for a long time. Um, in when I was still in college and then, um, into acupuncture school, I guess all through those years. Um, And then what,

[00:16:54] Nikki La Croce: Oh, sorry, just a quick question. So Um, were you meeting people through your journey, primarily through your academic endeavors who are associated sort of with, like you said, sort of learning from Buddhist teachers and things like that, or were you cultivating a community of, you know, obviously educators, but also people who were sort of in the similar space as you that were able to kind of relate on that and bring together your shared knowledge?

[00:17:23] Greg Ripley: Yeah, um, probably a bit of both. I mean, in a lot of ways, a lot of it was a solitary journey as far as what I was reading and what I was thinking about and what was influencing me. Um, and, um, you know, when I was, When I was still in college, um, and college was an off and on long, uh, long time period for me.

[00:17:48] Greg Ripley: Um, but, uh, I, that's when I started to spend time with, uh, different Buddhist groups and stuff. And, uh, you know, first I was doing some, um, practicing with some Zen groups that weren't particularly close. It was kind of a long haul. So every once in a while I'd, you know, I was in, uh, Uh, part of the time I was living in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and so it was about an hour down to Atlanta to go to the Zen Center down there, so occasionally I'd make that trip, or, um, later on I was in Knoxville, and so it was kind of a longer haul, so that didn't happen too often, but, um.

[00:18:22] Greg Ripley: Then once I was in Knoxville, I kind of started hanging out with the, uh, the Buddhist groups there more. That was a Tibetan Buddhist group that, uh, I spent time with for several years. Um,

[00:18:32] Nikki La Croce: How did you find them to begin with? Were you just kind of like, I'm actively looking for this and therefore, you know, just kind of uncovering that these groups existed there?

[00:18:41] Greg Ripley: I think that was it really. It was kind of like, okay, this is all the stuff I'm reading. This is all that I'm interested in. Um, you know, start the internet was, Alive then enough that you could kind of start to find things or you'd see flyers and stuff like that, right? So this group I think I think how they started originally was Back when they would do those tours of the monks would tour to put on performances basically of you know, they had the the chanting that sounds like the The Mongolian, like multi, multi tonal kind of chanting.

[00:19:21] Greg Ripley: And, um, you know, they had the big horns and they'd do some of the llama dances and stuff like that. So when they were doing those tours, um, this probably would have been in, um, you know, mid 90s, I guess, maybe something like that. Um, yeah, they were kind of doing those tours, uh, and people who were interested, I guess, you know, were probably helping host.

[00:19:45] Greg Ripley: the monks and stuff. And then I think that that center kind of grew out of that connection initially. And then, um, I think, uh, yeah, I think that's where it really grew out of. Um, and then I think they're still going strong. I think they've been there ever since, but

[00:20:02] Nikki La Croce: yeah, it's, it's really fascinating to just kind of think about how This is something that is a widely known concept.

[00:20:12] Nikki La Croce: These are what you're describing, um, Taoism, Zen Buddhism, all of the practices, you know, that are more Eastern, we've seen them come to, to the Western world. We've done whatever we've done with them, I guess, for, for better and for worse, probably in some ways. Um, but it's really, Oh, yeah. I think reaffirming to recognize that there are people who, um, you know, want to help others connect with that side of them.

[00:20:39] Nikki La Croce: And what you've done from what I understand with your book, I haven't had a chance to read it yet. A Hundred Remedies of the Dao is like to really take pieces of what you've learned and simplify it in a way that makes sense for the modern world, for just sort of any person who might come in and be like, I want, I want to know more, but I need it to be able to feel maybe more applicable to my everyday life.

[00:21:02] Nikki La Croce: Was that sort of the mindset behind creating this book?

[00:21:06] Greg Ripley: Yeah, for sure. It's like, I wanted to I think that was probably half of the half of it, or, or two thirds, let's say, . I definitely wanted to make it practical, make it relatable to anybody that was interested in, in their spiritual life, whether they were specifically interested in Taoism or not.

[00:21:25] Greg Ripley: I think, um, I think a lot of people could read this and find a lot of food for thought and a lot of things to relate to, um, as long as they were interested in. Anything that was kind of to do with meditation, mindfulness, any of those sorts of things, right? Um, that you're, you're going to find relatable things.

[00:21:46] Greg Ripley: There's, I also tried to introduce more Daoist concepts and ideas than are typically in mainstream readership kind of books about Daoism. Um, Just there, there've been so many rehashings of the data Jing just over and over. There's like a new translation every day. Right. And it's like, okay, we might've had enough of those now.

[00:22:08] Both: Maybe

[00:22:09] Greg Ripley: just maybe. Um, although that being said, one of the newest translations that has just come out is probably one of the best. I don't know.

[00:22:17] Nikki La Croce: It's interesting too. I actually feel like the timing of this conversation is so great because, um, my wife had mentioned to me maybe a couple of weeks ago that she had listened to, um, The one of the Wayne Dyer readings of Tao Te Ching and, um, for the first time, and I had previously listened to it as well, but it was very top of mind with like the sort of, like you said, it's people who are in the mindset.

[00:22:43] Nikki La Croce: where are you right now? Like, what is it that you're seeking, you know, to, to glean from that? Um, but I think there's also something really wonderful about kind of going in without like really seeking to gain anything. Um, and just trying to, I mean, I guess seeking to understand, right. Like, um, just to, to learn more.

[00:23:01] Nikki La Croce: And then it's something that I think when you consume it, it's, it feels so obvious. It's like everybody should, everybody should consume this in one way or another because it's just so reasonable. Um, and, and so I find it, um, really interesting to just kind of, I, I guess I haven't really thought about the various interpretations of it and how that sort of manifests across the, uh, the way that people are actually, um, you know, taking those lessons or taking those learnings and applying them.

[00:23:35] Nikki La Croce: So it's like, you can take sort of the base text and cultivate something that's more specific, or you can sort of look at it for what it's worth. And, and in that moment from that interpretation, and just let that sort of be your, your purview of it?

[00:23:51] Greg Ripley: Yeah, for sure. I think, um, it's interesting in that a lot of, um, a lot of the text in the Dao De Jing is probably originally little sayings or, um, almost like little, um, little verses that, um, were kind of collected and compiled together.

[00:24:10] Greg Ripley: And then at some point, they kind of tried to make it into something that seemed like it had been written, um, all in one Right. And, and I, and I think, um, in that way, the, those almost like lines of poetry sort of, and, and in that way, it's almost like a song in the sense that, um, I mean, some of the greatest songs are songs that Anybody can listen to and find something that they resonate with and they relate to.

[00:24:42] Greg Ripley: And they, everybody feels like, Oh, this, this song is speaking about my life, you know? And it's like, and maybe, maybe the person who wrote it, like was thinking about something very, very different, um, when they wrote it and that's what they put into it. And that's what they were kind of resonating with. But, um, so I think the more.

[00:25:03] Greg Ripley: varied viewpoints, um, and different directions people can come from and find something in there that they relate to, the more appealing something like that can be. And so, and the Dao De Jing is, is a little bit vague as well, um, partly just being written in ancient Chinese. Um, the language is not as specific as like modern English would be or something.

[00:25:27] Greg Ripley: Um, and so, There is a lot of room for interpretation, even if you are trying to stay very accurate to the worldview and the times when it was written and all of that, you can still have all kinds of interpretations. And so, that ability makes it very, um, yeah, very flexible, very easy to use. appealing to anybody because you can, you can read, you can project all kinds of things into it.

[00:25:58] Greg Ripley: Yeah. And you'll, you'll pull all kinds of things out of it that, that weren't there or weren't originally intended or whatever. And that's, I mean, that's part of the beauty of the book. Um, do you feel at the same time?

[00:26:10] Nikki La Croce: Oh, I'm sorry. Continue. You can go.

[00:26:12] Greg Ripley: No, I was going to say, and then you have, um, at the same time, that's also allowed people to just feel like they can just do whatever they want with it, kind of to get, get a little, get a little wild on their, uh, their interpretations and stuff.

[00:26:27] Greg Ripley: But, um, yeah.

[00:26:29] Nikki La Croce: So I'm just curious, have you had moments where you've let's say read or, or listened to any of these, um, these things and these learnings at, different points in your life and felt that you've gleaned different things from them?

[00:26:45] Greg Ripley: Yeah, I'm sure it has. And even, even just over a shorter time period, I think one thing that's great about texts like these that are relatively short, um, and there are, there are a lot of Daoist texts that are much, much shorter.

[00:26:59] Greg Ripley: Um, yeah. Like ones that are, um, part of the liturgies and stuff like that are quite short, you know, they would just be a couple pages.

[00:27:07] Nikki La Croce: Well, I like the bite sized pieces of information. In this day and age, I think that's like a good segue for people. Like just, just try it and see how it goes from there.

[00:27:17] Greg Ripley: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And so that's like for the book, the commentaries, I mean, the remedies themselves are basically a sentence, right? And then the commentaries are only, you know, at the, at the most two, three pages, maybe, maybe a few, a little bit longer than that, but they're pretty much, uh, little concise bite sized pieces.

[00:27:37] Greg Ripley: Um, But, uh, yeah, with these short texts that are kind of, um,

[00:27:45] Greg Ripley: they're kind of straightforward, but kind of not. So they, they, they definitely benefit from repeated reading. And so things that are like in a liturgy where you're, you're hearing it over and over and over, um, you know, you'll have times when it means nothing new to you. And then all of a sudden you'll hear it And it's like, you heard it for the first time and like, you make some new connection with something else you read or heard or something that's happened in your life.

[00:28:15] Greg Ripley: And all of a sudden it's like, Oh, Oh yeah. Wow.

[00:28:18] Nikki La Croce: You're totally right. Yeah. That's a really good point.

[00:28:19] Greg Ripley: Yeah.

[00:28:21] Nikki La Croce: Even, even song lyrics to your, to your earlier mention. I think there are things that I listen to now years later after I've heard them for the first time, I'm like, Ooh, that hits different now, you know?

[00:28:30] Nikki La Croce: Like, so. something in life has occurred and now it makes more sense to me or it feels more relatable. So I love that you mentioned that.

[00:28:38] Greg Ripley: Yeah. There's a lot of things like that, that we, we can, we can understand and know intellectually and we'll hear them when we were kind of like, yeah, yeah, I get it. And then, you know, maybe our life conditions, uh, are more like maybe the person who wrote the song or that stage of their life or something.

[00:28:55] Greg Ripley: And then it's like a whole different ballgame. Totally. I feel like, okay, no, I really get it.

[00:29:02] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. I honestly, I feel like that's a lot of times when I'm in therapy, the moment that I have where I'm like, no, I, I rationally understand, you know, for, you know, certain moments in my life. And I can say, I get it.

[00:29:14] Nikki La Croce: I rationally know that I'm still working through the emotional side of it. And then all of a sudden, you know, you have this revelation and you're like, Oh no, I get it now, though, like on a much deeper level. So it is sort of trying to find that, um, that meeting point between your rational brain and your emotional spiritual side that like actually really kind of brings it all together in a way that, as you said, just sort of makes it stick that time.

[00:29:37] Greg Ripley: Yeah, I think so. And then, um, you know, unfortunately we have, uh, times where we Um, we'll have a realization that We've already had realized that, or like, you're like, Oh, I, that's right. I used to know this and, and I somehow over the years it had just evaporated. And now I've, I've had to relearn this lesson again, but fortunately I've learned it and hopefully this will be the last time, but

[00:30:08] Nikki La Croce: remember that.

[00:30:10] Greg Ripley: Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, yeah. So. I think that can be helpful too with, um, certain books or certain songs or things in your life that you come back to over and over because they can, hopefully they can kind of remind you on a semi regular basis about some of these, uh, realizations. Or lessons learned or whatnot that you'll have through your life and, um, hopefully those, um, those laps will, will, you know, come a little more frequent and, and, uh, some of that will stick.

[00:30:42] Greg Ripley: I know with myself, um, I feel like I have a strange memory that, um, if I'm not actively engaged with something, I, I feel like it just vanishes, you know, and then I often realize that, oh, wait, I still know that stuff. It's just that it. It doesn't seem to be in my conscious. Yeah, it's not, it's not the prominent part.

[00:31:03] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, yeah, I get that. I feel like it's, um, it seems like just sort of based on the nature of the way you're speaking about your life and the things that have factored into you becoming who you are and landing where you are in life. is that there is a lot of input. So to try to retain all of that at a level that is always accessible is very challenging.

[00:31:25] Nikki La Croce: Um, so sometimes it sort of pops in when you need it. Other times you're like, I, as you said, you sort of, um, maybe. your memory of it or your implementation of it is sort of, um, not yet recovered. And so I find that, you know, as I've evolved personally, that those things that, you know, the inputs, as you said, they're still there.

[00:31:49] Nikki La Croce: Like our subconscious knows that we know these things. And so it might actually even be impacting the way we're living our day to day lives. We're just not conscious of the fact that we're, We're letting these things continue to impact what we're doing or the way that we show up in the world Do you feel like that's sort of similar?

[00:32:05] Nikki La Croce: So I mean subconsciously that is literally how it works But I guess for your own life, have you felt that way?

[00:32:12] Greg Ripley: Yeah, I think so. Um, and you'll have times I think where even if you're not aware of it You're allowing that to come through and shape things, and you'll have other times where you're trying to do something that, um, maybe isn't as authentic to you or isn't as in line with, you know, who you are.

[00:32:36] Greg Ripley: And it'll feel like that much more of a struggle and things. And then when you, you get more in alignment again, with, with those parts of you that are still there, but are kind of not conscious that, um, Yeah, things, things just seem to flow much, much better. So

[00:32:57] Nikki La Croce: I'm going to bring it to the something that I mentioned in the, in the intro, which is that you're a Taoist priest.

[00:33:04] Nikki La Croce: What does that entail for you in sort of your day to day life or overall practice?

[00:33:10] Greg Ripley: Well, so for me, it has been a way of, um, just diving deeper into the practice. It's not, I haven't, you know, started my own temple and I'm not like doing rituals for people every day or something like that. Um, but it, it was a way of, um, It was a, yeah, just I think a way of deepening the practice, wanting to know more and it's a long, it'll be a long journey, it'll, I tend to think of these things as like, you're just going to be on a journey until you die, you know, it's like, it's not like you're, you're not going to get anywhere, you know, you're, you're just going to keep waking up and, and, uh, continuing on until you, uh, until you don't, so,

[00:33:57] Both: yeah, but,

[00:33:58] Greg Ripley: um, but yeah, Yeah, a lot of the, a lot of the, um, ritual side of Daoism is really complicated and so it is years and years and years of study, um, and so I've just kind of dipped my toe in that, um, compared to, uh, people who have, have done it for a lifetime.

[00:34:14] Greg Ripley: But, um, yeah, I just, um, I, I did a kind of, um, kind of like a seminary type thing. program, um, when I wanted to deepen my studies and, and found a teacher who was, who was doing that kind of a thing and did that. And then I've just continued on with other teachers as well. And so, um, yeah, just never ending,

[00:34:40] Both: never

[00:34:40] Greg Ripley: ending journey, but it was, I think there was always a part of me that wanted to dive deeper into things.

[00:34:45] Greg Ripley: And that was a way of doing that, I think.

[00:34:47] Nikki La Croce: Yeah, I will. And I appreciate the. desire to find ways to deepen that practice. I think a lot of us, um, like the idea of many things. Um, I can speak to myself for sure. And, you know, it's sort of the generalized, um, or, or like just a lighter commitment to it and just wanting to understand, but not necessarily going that to that next stage of.

[00:35:12] Nikki La Croce: you know, really implementing the practice and being intentional about it. Um, I mean, to be honest with you, I know nothing about dial up stretchables. I don't, um, I ha I now I'm curious for sure. Um, which, which is good. That's always, um, one of my favorite things about doing this show is just learning more about what I don't actually know.

[00:35:30] Nikki La Croce: And, um, I, I wonder, you know, how your practice with Taoism and the work that you're doing as a forest therapy guide, like, do you, I clearly there's some intersection, you know, sort of from the natural side of things, but was that something that you felt like very intentional about bringing those things together?

[00:35:53] Greg Ripley: Um, I think I always intuitively felt like they were very complimentary and that there should be a natural overlap there. Um, and I think, um, I think it's taken me a few years to kind of, um, distill that to what I sort of want it to look like or what, what it actually looks like for me or will look like.

[00:36:19] Greg Ripley: And, um, And so, it's like on the one hand, it makes perfect sense that, I mean, practices like Qigong and stuff like that, traditionally people do them outside whenever they can. That's why you have all the old people in parks in China, you know, out there doing Tai Chi and Qigong and stuff like that. Um, can I ask you,

[00:36:41] Nikki La Croce: I actually don't know what Qigong is.

[00:36:42] Nikki La Croce: Could you explain that? Okay.

[00:36:44] Greg Ripley: So it's, it's kind of the modern iteration of, of practices that go back a long way, um, couple thousand years probably at least. And so it's, it's on the one hand, it's similar to something like yoga. Um, it's a little bit more like, It looks typically a little bit more like Tai Chi as far as the movement of it.

[00:37:05] Greg Ripley: Um, um, there are seated forms of these things. Um, styles that are, are more like what we think of with yoga, with asanas and stuff, um, more stretching involved and things like that. And then a lot of it is typically done standing though. And then the movements are, tend to be more. Um, and there's a, it's, it's, it's similar in that you're, you're wanting your, your energetic part of yourself to be flowing.

[00:37:42] Greg Ripley: On the one hand, you're, you're, talking about your breath and your circulation. Um, and then you may or may not be thinking about an energetic component to it. So in that way, it's, it's very analogous to yoga. It's obviously has different roots. Although I think there was probably some medieval overlapping and stuff.

[00:38:01] Nikki La Croce: Yeah.

[00:38:02] Greg Ripley: Along the Silk Road, I'm sure.

[00:38:03] Nikki La Croce: Well, thank you for explaining

[00:38:04] Greg Ripley: that. Sure, sure. But, uh, you know, so, um, yeah, and going back to Chinese medicine and acupuncture, um, you know, there's the idea of being in harmony with nature for your health, um, you know, following natural cycles and, and things like that. And so Qigong is, is stressed in the, in those, um, arenas and as for, for health, it's, it's a, it's a, like a longevity practice or, uh, maintenance kind of practice.

[00:38:36] Greg Ripley: Um, you can think of it that way. And so it seems like, Oh, if you're trying to be, um, you know, in alignment with nature and natural cycles and live a more natural life and do all these things, well, Hey, that makes perfect sense. And, and it goes right along with kind of the, the goals of, of something like a forest therapy.

[00:38:58] Greg Ripley: Um, yeah. So it seemed like, Oh, sure. There's a natural overlap there. But then I, I, I think, uh, when I initially trained in force therapy, I didn't want to feel like, well, I'm just going to play kind of fast and loose and just throw things together and do whatever. Cause, uh, um, I kind of tend to feel like I want to really know something well enough.

[00:39:21] Greg Ripley: to know what is sort of essential and vital in a practice, um, or in a tradition or, or, or what have you, before I kind of want to play fast and loose and just feel like you can just take it and do whatever you want with it, you know, and that's kind of the problem. Yeah. A lot of, a lot of things today is people just go, Oh yeah, that looks cool.

[00:39:42] Greg Ripley: I'll just take a little of this, a little of Throw it together and market it. And, you know, it's a whole new thing now. And I can slap a brand on it and whatever. So I respect

[00:39:51] Nikki La Croce: the integrity. I do. I very much do. I, because, you know, I think it speaks especially to, um, just sort of the desire to have that connection personally.

[00:40:03] Nikki La Croce: And like, this is what's important for you. And then to share that benefit with other people, you know, it's wanting to make sure that they have, um, you know, um, the, the depth of understanding and the connection to it as well, as opposed to just sort of like putting something out there for commercial purposes, which, I mean, it's really a shame.

[00:40:22] Nikki La Croce: And I, that, that so much of that happens. Um, if I have to find a silver lining, I think that it would be that there's at least exposure to some of these schools of thought, maybe that there wouldn't have been if people weren't doing that. Um, but I, I really admire that like, there's that element of integrity for you because.

[00:40:40] Nikki La Croce: You'd mentioned when we first started chatting a little bit about sort of having things in alignment with who you are and where you are. And the term that comes up for me so frequently anymore is just this idea of being incongruence with who you are and like the things that are happening in your life and getting you to a place where like you can feel like you're in that flow and that you are accepting and allowing, but you're also about what you're doing and the way that you're speaking to your practice, I feel like really emulates that.

[00:41:10] Greg Ripley: Yeah, for sure. It's, um, yeah, yeah. There's a lot there. Um, it's, yeah, I think it's important that, um, yeah, I mean, so often when we start to chase, um, things too much, as far as like, um, I've got to figure out how to commodify this and like, you know, do something with it. And like so much of our life is, it's geared towards that, that, that we need times to, when we are doing things for the sake of doing them and not because there's, there's something to get out of it.

[00:41:48] Greg Ripley: Like some, you know, I mean, we, we need money. We need to, you know, feed and clothe ourselves and house ourselves and all that good stuff, but, um, It's the plight

[00:41:59] Nikki La Croce: of humanity.

[00:42:01] Greg Ripley: Yeah, yeah. Unless we, you know, change our systems, uh, dramatically, um, and, uh, have very different sort of values, uh, throughout society, then that's always going to be that, that struggle between those two sides of things, I think.

[00:42:15] Greg Ripley: I think about that often.

[00:42:16] Nikki La Croce: I feel like it, it seems like it, should be so much easier than we make it. It's almost like what you were saying with sort of having, if we have this resistance to things, we make it so much more difficult. I feel like as a society, like as humanity, we're functioning a bit from that space where it's like, if we just gave ourselves like the most simplistic view of the world, and we thought about how we can, you know, align more with nature within ourselves, create more communities that are rooted in these, um, I think very, um, important beliefs that like, aren't tied to, you know, just some sort of standardized religion, but to just really more the philosophical side of things.

[00:43:01] Nikki La Croce: If humanity operated more from like a philosophical good, um, I feel like we would be in a vastly different place. I am I feel like I'm a hopeless romantic for humanity is what I would describe it as. It's like, I have this vision of what could be and it's like, but be real, you know, and it's like, come on, be better.

[00:43:21] Nikki La Croce: Um, sorry, that's a little bit of a tangent, but I just feel like, you know, when you speak about the come out, commoditization of things, it's like, it really just hits where it's like, we should be doing things because that's what feels right. And then, you know, if there's sort of this additional benefit to it.

[00:43:36] Nikki La Croce: Great. But, um, when we drive from that place of, I mean, ultimately I think a lot of people just want stability, but there is also so much greed in this world that it's so fundamentally different than the practices that you're describing too. It's like, I don't know that I can believe that somebody who is a billionaire and wants to talk about how like they have, you know, these very, you know, sound, uh, philosophical practices.

[00:44:01] Nikki La Croce: You're like, I, I don't think that that works, right? Like that doesn't feel like that's in congruence, um, perhaps, but do you feel like the work that you're doing is something that is really rooted in, um, cause I know you mentioned really going down this path. Yeah. to kind of uncover things for yourself.

[00:44:21] Nikki La Croce: Now that you've gotten to a place where you are, you know, a therapy guide, do you, do you feel like you're coming more from a place of service and a desire to like expand into, uh, help other people expand their journeys?

[00:44:36] Greg Ripley: Yeah, I think so. And I think I've always kind of, I think I've always come from that place a little bit and it's always evolved what that has meant for me and how that's been expressed.

[00:44:48] Greg Ripley: Um, but yeah, I, I think it really is weird that, I mean, I share your view, basically, of a very optimistic view of humanity in the long run, and that, you know, most people just want to be happy and comfortable and leave, uh, You know, leave a good life to their kids and all that kind of thing, right? And, you know, leave the world better than they found it kind of thing.

[00:45:14] Greg Ripley: But then, unfortunately, we always have a segment of the population of the world that sees the world as very like, dog eat dog and like,

[00:45:26] Nikki La Croce: transactional always

[00:45:27] Greg Ripley: in. Yeah, well, transactional and also like, viewing everything as a head to head competition or something that they need to win and someone else has to lose for them to win and that kind of thing, as opposed to, you know, as the world keeps getting smaller, and we keep getting more and more interconnected.

[00:45:44] Greg Ripley: It's like, at a certain point, can't we see all of humanity as our community and our group that we're wanting to succeed, right? Oh my god, I love that you said that,

[00:45:56] Nikki La Croce: Greg. Like, I feel, I feel seen.

[00:45:58] Greg Ripley: I really do. Can't we want everybody to flourish, right? It's

[00:46:03] Nikki La Croce: like, yes, yes, yes. A thousand percent yes. I'm constantly in this, I feel like looping conversation with whoever will let me talk to them about it, because I'm like, I really feel strongly that it is possible for all of us to succeed.

[00:46:20] Nikki La Croce: And I would equate it to my experience in the corporate world, which is you have people who are, uh, Just sort of the the ladder climbers, the empire builders is what people would call them at these companies. And it's like, all you care about is building up the the specific circumstances around you to get you where you want to go.

[00:46:39] Nikki La Croce: And so you'll sort of crush the people below you to rise above you. On your own, instead of realizing if you empowered those people, you would all rise. And really, there's no problem with everybody being successful. But like for some people, I think it's, um, I mean, realistically, it's just such an ego based way of, of thinking and operating.

[00:46:58] Nikki La Croce: So, um, it's really helpful to know that, um, other people think this way, Greg, thank you for validating.

[00:47:05] Greg Ripley: Sure, sure, for sure. Yeah. It's, it's funny. I remember hearing things like they would. Ask people whether they would rather make, I don't remember what the specific numbers were, but let's say, would you rather make 100, 000 at your job that everybody else makes?

[00:47:24] Greg Ripley: 150,

[00:47:25] Both: 000.

[00:47:26] Greg Ripley: Um, or would you rather make 50, 000 at a job that everybody else makes 20, 000? And people would want to have the higher pay in relation to their peers and not the actual highest pay they could have. And it just like made no sense. It's like, you'd just rather be comparing yourself to other people or feel like you're winning in comparison to them as opposed to doing better, period.

[00:47:54] Greg Ripley: Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way of describing it. Yeah. It's so weird. It's like, um, yeah. And, and I think when we are, when we're, there's this weird, um, paradox, I think to where the more we're looking out at other people and comparing ourselves to them and making judgments, Um, the more egotistical we become, even though in a sense, it's like we're spending all our time looking out, but it's, it's causing us to, to sort of solidify all that egotism and self centeredness even more, um, versus, you know, if we're looking in first and figuring things out, figuring out who we are, trying to live an authentic life ourselves.

[00:48:43] Greg Ripley: Then we don't really care what the other people are doing. They can be doing whatever they want and we're, we're doing our thing. And so in a sense, we've become more egotistical, but it's like in a positive way, right? So it's, there's always this weird paradox that if we, If we look at ourselves, often we'll become less egotistical than when we look outward.

[00:49:07] Greg Ripley: So it's, I mean, ideally we're probably doing both.

[00:49:11] Nikki La Croce: To kind of go a little bit further on that, it makes me think about how, well, it's sort of like, what's the intention of, of the going inward, right? Of the, of the focusing on yourself. Um, because I think, Obviously, as we've established in this conversation and and throughout life that you have to prioritize yourself, you have to figure out who you are, you have to understand yourself to be able to show up in the world in that way, that authentic way that you're talking about.

[00:49:39] Nikki La Croce: And I think it's reasonable to recognize that, you know, situations and people around us will impact, um, you know, the way that we do that. And it's our choice if it's going to be in that, through that lens of comparison, or maybe we can look at that. And I'm, I'm saying this as if I don't need to hear it too, but I'm saying it for myself as well, which is that it's also, What if you just look at that and as you said, sort of acknowledge what other people are doing more as a matter of fact, and maybe it's an input into the way that you show up and what you do, but it's not in a way that is comparative and then either therefore like motivating you through sort of more egotistical means, or maybe demotivating you because you feel this sense of shame or, or powerlessness or something like that.

[00:50:28] Nikki La Croce: So it's like, there's so much of it is that perspective that you hold when you're focusing on yourself that really kind of turns it to like, I, uh, the, I don't even want to say like good or bad or positive or negative, but that's sort of it, right? Like it's like, is it, is it more because I just am observing or is it because I'm trying to observe and then activate something within myself?

[00:50:52] Greg Ripley: Yeah. Yeah. And we can, I mean, we can, um, look to other people, um, to learn things of course, and positive or negative, you know, we can look at other people and be like, wow, I really don't want to do what they're doing. Um, or, and we can look at other people and say, Oh, you know, You know, I, I, maybe I'm doing pretty well because look at that, look at that person over there, not in terms of, you know, material gain or, or, or things like that, but just like, how are we doing as a person, you know, like,

[00:51:25] Both: um,

[00:51:25] Greg Ripley: you know, our, um, Yeah, just how are we doing in our lives?

[00:51:32] Greg Ripley: You know, um, we can look to others and, and say, Oh, I'm glad I'm not doing that. Um, you know, um, I'm glad I, I don't need to learn those lessons or I have already learned those lessons. Um, and you can look to other people as examples of things you want to emulate, you know, um, and, and this could be mentors or, or it could even be strangers that you, you treat as mentors in the sense that they are a good example, um, to follow.

[00:52:00] Greg Ripley: Um, yeah, that's

[00:52:01] Nikki La Croce: great. And,

[00:52:01] Greg Ripley: you know, hopefully, hopefully they're in your life and, and you can have a more direct relationship, but even if they're not, they can just be somebody that, um, yeah, you use as, as a, as a role model, as like, as a guide out there, like, Hey, And even if they're not a perfect person, like none of us really are, they may be very together in an aspect of their life.

[00:52:24] Greg Ripley: And you can say, you know, Ooh, on this, this other side of this person's life, they're, they're not so together, but they've, they've really got this part figured out. And so I'm going to take that. I'm going to emulate that, that part of them. Yeah. And then you can do the, you know, and you can maybe use that other side of them as the negative example.

[00:52:45] Greg Ripley: Like, I'm not going to do that, but I am going to do that.

[00:52:49] Nikki La Croce: Yeah. Well, I, I feel like. Our entire lives are basically kind of doing that in maybe not as deliberate of a way and sort of mixing and matching our experiences to, I mean, to speaking about my experience in, in corporate, corporate jobs. Um, you know, I just think about, You sort of see the manager, like we're all working for the machine at that point.

[00:53:13] Nikki La Croce: So you've got the people who are like really intentional about like building a team that's unified, that they want, you know, all, all boats to rise together and they're doing the best they can in the circumstances they have. And I can say like, those people were very passionate about it. helpful in cultivating the way I show up in a professional workspace and things like that.

[00:53:32] Nikki La Croce: And then there's the other people where you're like, I don't want to be like you, like I have no desire to show up that way. And, um, the best thing that I can hope for sometimes in situations like that, whether it's professionally or personally is to maybe take those, ideally take those things that we learned that are more positive, that feel more right to us that feel more aligned.

[00:53:54] Nikki La Croce: And, um, and when I say more positive, I mean, like, It's, you're not trying to harm somebody. You're not being completely self serving, like you're, you're coming from a place of just genuine desire to, to be who you are, to help other people in some way. And it's like, if we can embody that. in a more meaningful way, then maybe we can also help influence those people that we don't really want to be like, you know, um, some people are stubborn and they're not going to be open to that.

[00:54:24] Nikki La Croce: And maybe some of it has to be like, feel maybe a little covert and just kind of like be the way that you want to be and hope that that kind of rubs off on some people. But I do feel like there's this really important factor of identifying, you know, the things that we want to keep and the things that we want to leave behind.

[00:54:44] Nikki La Croce: And, um, you know, it sounds like throughout your life and on this journey that you've been on, Greg, that you've really done a lot of interesting work and self development and really kind of pulled together the things that feel right to you. Um, so do you feel like you're at a point right now where you're kind of like riding the wave and seeing where it's going, or do you have something sort of on the docket for where you want to go next?

[00:55:10] Nikki La Croce: Um,

[00:55:13] Greg Ripley: yeah, I think, uh, a little of both. I'm, I'm a little bit writing at the moment. I think, um, transitioning into a, you know, um, is there a next book coming? Is there, um, am I going to focus a little bit more on the, uh, you know, forest therapy and, and growing that side of things a little bit more? Um, and then there's just, you know, You know, who knows what life is going to throw at you, right?

[00:55:40] Greg Ripley: And so I've got, you know, I've got a couple of daughters and, uh, life is a lot of life is, is centered around whatever's going on with them. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So there's all that, uh, stuff in the mix too, family life and, and, and that good stuff, um, Yeah, so, but yeah, so much of life is just, yeah, figuring out, um, yeah, having that intentional kind of, kind of finding your purpose, that kind of stuff, right?

[00:56:09] Greg Ripley: And then, you know, we either do that by trying things that seem like they're Aligned with if we have an idea of what we think that is or we try all kinds of random things that we go Yeah, that's not it. That's I did I did a lot of that along the way I think to with a lot of a lot of strange jobs and things but Yeah, it's again, in hindsight, it's like, it kind of all makes sense, um, to some extent, and, uh, seems to be flowing, uh, together in a certain direction.

[00:56:43] Greg Ripley: Um, but yeah, so I think that's part of what, uh, got me into writing books was, I mean, I enjoyed the process, um, but also wanting to, yeah, make a bigger impact than I could make one on one with people, um, just in an acupuncture practice or, or what have you. And so, um, yeah, that's, that's always been a part of it.

[00:57:07] Nikki La Croce: Well, as we're rounding out the episode here, um, Is there anything that you'd like to share with listeners, particularly around, um, either Taoism in general or your book, um, that you feel would be something that would be, I don't know, maybe inspiring might not be the right word, but might resonate with people, particularly if they haven't really had a chance or, or made the decision to dive into learning about Taoism yet.

[00:57:33] Nikki La Croce: Like where would you maybe suggest that they start?

[00:57:39] Greg Ripley: Well, I think, um, I think maybe I'll focus on, you know, that, that overlap of nature and, uh, and Taoism is where I kind of, uh, find myself so often. Um, and so like, you know, I wrote an earlier book that was called Taoist Sustainability and that was kind of the focus of that was more nature connection focus.

[00:58:01] Greg Ripley: And, and part of the impetus was, um, Um, wanting people to have options for healthier lifestyles and all that part of it is, you know, dealing with climate change and, and what we're heading into here. Um, because I really feel like the crux of it is just that disconnection we have with nature and natural cycles.

[00:58:24] Greg Ripley: And we've, we've come, become so divorced from the natural world that we kind of just don't notice these things happening, um, in our daily lives, right? We're focused on our jobs. We're focused online. We're focused in inside all the time and, and, and we're not in touch with what's going on. And so, um, you know, we, we take care of what we are aware of.

[00:58:51] Greg Ripley: And, and, and if we, we keep sort of disconnected like this, It's just inevitably things will get worse, but I feel like we have all the tools, we have all the current technology, we have everything we need to go in a different direction and we just don't really seem to have the political will or Or enough momentum to combat that, that greediness and that, that other side of, of things, uh, you know, the people who are wanting to hoard and wanting to win at, at the cost of the rest of, of the world and, and all of that.

[00:59:28] Greg Ripley: And so, yeah, I think that's the most important focus for, for all of us right now is, is, you know, seeing that unity of humanity and. Realizing that it doesn't have to be a zero sum game. We're not, it doesn't have to be head to head competition over a scrap of land or some resources or whatever. There's more than enough to go around.

[00:59:56] Greg Ripley: Um, and uh, yeah, we just, we, we've got to take care of each other.

[01:00:02] Nikki La Croce: I love that. I think that's a perfect way to end the episode. I. Could not agree with you more. So thank you so much, Greg. It has been so great to chat with you and gang, you can get Greg's book, A Hundred Remedies of the Tao, Spiritualism for Interesting Times on Amazon.

[01:00:19] Nikki La Croce: Um, I believe it's also at Barnes and Noble. You can check out his website, gregoryripley. com. All of that stuff will be in the show notes. Um, and thank you again so much, Greg. It was great having you.

[01:00:30] Greg Ripley: Yeah. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.